999 – Listacleese and Iceicleese

Episode 999 – Listacleese and Iceicleese

 

[START OF RECORDING]

 

SCOOTER:    Friends beyond the binary, pay…ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and my patron peeps, it’s the podcaster that starts off with imperfection, ‘cause you don’t have to be perfect and neither do I.  We just have to be here together to keep one another company through the deep, dark night.  Technically, you could keep me company by falling asleep or lying there and chilling out and barely listening to me.  I’m fine with that.  What do you say we get on with the show?

 

INTRO:    [INTRO MUSIC] Hey, are you up all night tossing, turning, mind racing?  Trouble getting to sleep?  Trouble staying asleep?  Well, welcome.  This is Sleep With Me, the podcast that puts you to sleep.  We do it with a bedtime story.  Alls you need to do is get in bed, turn out the lights, and press play.  I’m gonna do the rest.  What I’m going to attempt to do is create a safe place where you could set aside whatever’s keeping you awake, whether it’s thoughts, things on your mind that you’re thinking about, whether…it could be thoughts from the past or the present or the future, so thoughts, any feelings coming up, emotions bubbling to the surface or left over or anticipatory feelings and emotions.  It could be physical sensations, it could be a change in your schedule or your routine.

 

It could be that your schedule is not routine.  So many people in different jobs, especially jobs that are community support…jobs where you’re supporting our community and your community.  You don’t even have regular schedules, and we get to be there for you ‘cause you’re there for us, so I appreciate that.  It could be something else; seasonal or situational.  Whatever it is, I’d like to take your mind off of it.  What I propose to do is create a safe place like I said, where you could set that aside.  I’m gonna create this safe place by sending my voice across the deep, dark night.  I’m gonna use lulling, soothing, creaky, dulcet tones, pointless meanders, which means I’ll go off-topic, pointless meanders, superfluous tangents, I’ll get mixed up, filler words.  This podcast is so full of filler words, it’s overflowing.

 

If I could think of a joke, I would have put it in there.  How full is it?  It’s over…say, how full is it?  It’s overflowing.  Did I ever tell you, all my dear listeners, the great tub of overflow story?  I think…I know there was something called Tub of Overflow.  I’ll try to remember to tell it to you because it’s just an example of how human we all can be.  I think that was when I made the pod…I think the podcast existed then.  Maybe not, though.  Maybe it didn’t exist then.  I’m not sure.  But whatever…here’s the thing; I’m gonna…oh, send my voice…oh, so if you’re new, a few things you might want to know, because this podcast is very different, so if you’re having a reaction or you get here; you say, what is this?  What’s this…when’s the story gonna start?  I’d say, about fifteen minutes from now.

 

So, the reason this podcast is different is it’s really here to…it’s a sleep podcast but I’m also very different.  Maybe you’re very different, so we have that in…we share that.  That’s one of the things that can keep us awake at night, is just those…that could be a feeling and a thought and a…it could be a triple-decker.  Oh boy, so what was my point?  When I tell you this tub story you’ll say okay, makes sense.  So, oh, so this podcast is different.  That’s one thing.  But of course if you’re…you…if you’re skeptical or doubtful if you’re new, that would make total sense as well, ‘cause I’m sure you’ve been promised things to put you to sleep in the past.

 

Maybe you’re like a lot of the other listeners, the regular listeners listening now, or the new listeners that say yeah, I’ve tried all this different stuff and none of it works, or it works for me like for a day or a week.  I say yeah, I’ve been there.  That’s why I started making this show, as a matter of fact.  So, that’s one thing; the podcast is different.  It’s also not a podcast you really listen to.  My job is…I’m here to keep you company and to take your mind off of stuff in a way that just barely engages you.  You say okay, I’m aware someone is talking and they may tell a story about a bed…a tub in the intro, the old bed tub.  It ain’t no hole in the bed tub.  Emmett Otter never sang that one.  But if there was a bed tub, you’d probably want multiple holes in it.  Putting a bed in a tub probably would put a crick in your neck, so don’t do it.

 

Yeah, I was just thinking of the term crick in the neck, but spelled differently than creak, right?  Okay, so…oh, so yeah, you don’t really listen to me.  You just kinda look at me like you would observe water passing by in a stream.  You say okay, there’s some water going there.  But you’re not really paying too much attention, so loosely listen or listen in a out-of-focus way like you’re looking at water clouds.  I don’t really actually put you to sleep, either, even though this is a sleep podcast and I kinda started that whole…the sleep audio thing back in 2013.  This podcast doesn’t put you to sleep; it’s here to keep you company while you fall asleep, so I’m here to take your mind off of stuff while you drift off.  That’s why the shows are over an hour.  You say oh, I got plenty of time to fall asleep.

 

Here’s the other thing; you don’t even have to fall asleep.  If you can’t sleep, I’m gonna be here, so listening to me is optional but there’s no pressure to fall asleep.  My job is to keep you barely engaged and to keep you company whether you need it or not.  If you can’t sleep, I’m gonna be here to the very end because there is a tiny percentage of listeners on a regular basis that can’t sleep and then there’s people that yeah, situationally…I’m here to keep you company.  I’m really here to apply for the role of bore-friend, bore-bud, bore-sib, bore-bestie, bore-cuz.  Yeah, I guess I have an admission to make about not being perfect, I mean, definitely on multiple levels, but this tub story will show you.

 

So, a couple other things that if you’re new that can throw new listeners off; one is the structure of the show, other than all the other stuff I said and that I’m an acquired taste and that it takes two or three times to get used to the show.  The structure of the show is very different, but it’s intentionally different.  Show starts off with a greeting; friends beyond the binary, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, so you feel welcome.  Then there’s business and listener support and that kinda stuff.  That’s how we’re able to be here free twice a week, is the business at the top of the show and the business after the intro, before the episode.  Then there’s an intro.  The intro goes from like, minute four or minute six to minute twenty or so.

 

For new listeners, at first it can feel a little bit jarring, but for regular listeners it kinda serves a purpose.  Then some new listeners, they get it right away and they start falling asleep or getting comfortable.  Then a few people skip the intro.  3% of listeners skip the intro but for most people, the intro introduces the new person to the show.  You get to know me.  Particularly tonight, I’m gonna tell you a personal story.  But it also gives you some space between your daytime and your falling asleep time, whether you listen to the podcast while you’re getting ready for bed or as part of your wind-down routine or you’re in bed already, cozy and comfy.  Regular listeners, it kinda helps ease you into bedtime, so that’s the goal of the intro, and…because it goes for like, fifteen or twenty minutes.  Some people say, why?

 

I say well, to give you some space, to set the sun, as we say, or as I’ve just said just now.  So, that’s the intro, then there’s business, then there will be a bedtime story.  Tonight will be a story of two siblings going on a small adventure on a long and winding road.  I forgot their names, but…Icicles and Listicles.  So, that’ll be interesting.  Then there’s some thank-yous at the end.  So, that’s the structure of the show.  Like a lot of listeners said and I said earlier, this podcast is an acquired taste, so give it two or three tries before you give up on it, unless you really don’t like it already and you say this is not for me, sir.  I just don’t appreciate…and that’s fine.  Not everybody likes me or the podcast.

 

I’m not even being…I’m not being snarky; [00:10:00] I totally get it, and that’s…I have a website, sleepwithmepodcast.com/nothankyou.  You could go there; there’s other sleep podcasts and sleep audio stuff because yeah, this is just…podcast just isn’t for everyone.  So, that and…so, I don’t think I’ve ever told this story, or maybe I have.  Let’s see, the…2021 when I’m recording this.  This must have been somewhere between 2010 and 2014.  It could have been any year…any of those years, maybe even 2015, though probably not.  I’m trying to think.  My daughter was born in…well, I don’t want to say exactly, but so…I…we were visiting…it was the summertime and we were visiting…we were having a small family gathering.  Me and my family try to get together in the summer and we have…go to a cabin on Lake Ontario.

 

But we’re…and this has never…hasn’t successfully happened, but this…whatever it was…maybe I…I think I did make the podcast at this time.  I’m not positive, though.  But let’s say it was 2014, just…or 2015 just for…I think, ‘cause yeah, I think it was after 20…whatever.  So, whatever, it was one of those years.  It was in the history of humanity.  But so, I grew up in Syracuse, New York.  We have our childhood home, and my parents were kind of living there but mostly they had relocated to Florida.  I’m the oldest of six kids, so…and our childhood home in Syracuse is…it was there and different people were living there at different times.  But my mom had said okay, this is…whatever this summer was, she said I want you to come.

 

We got some work to do around the house, and if you have anything at the house, I want you to take it and get rid of it.  This isn’t the important part of the story; this is just the setup of…just like a sleep podcast.  But so, we were there and then we also had to do a bunch of yard work.  Like, not landscaping but weeding and that kind of stuff, really stuff I was not…I was like, I think this is part of my vacation.  Meanwhile, my brother-in-law was working, so he was not on vacation and he was working remotely.  He was working remotely from my parents’ basement downstairs on a computer.  So, I was going indoors and…inside and outside, working on the lawn and whatever, weeding and stuff and cutting bushes and going inside ‘cause my daughter was with me, and she…whatever, she was around six, seven years old or something.

 

So, we hadn’t been staying at this house; we had been staying at a cabin on Lake Ontario that doesn’t really have a bath or anything.  It’s got a septic tank so you don’t really take…you kinda bathe in the lake because there’s not a lot of…you know, it’s like outdoor living style.  So, we…I said why don’t you take a bath?  Because this is a great opportunity with the…at this house, you could take a bath.  She says okay, why don’t you start my bath for me?  I’m doing something.  So, I start running the bathtub and the bathroom is right next to the room where my brother-in-law is working.  I guess apparently this bathtub doesn’t have any sort of overflow thing or anything.

 

So, I start running the bathtub and I said hey, brother…nameless brother-in-law, I’m running the bathtub for my daughter, so I’m gonna go back outside and work on the stuff…work on the lawn.  Now, this wasn’t really…I did not ask his permission because he was working, so I made a big old A-S-S-U-M-E mostly out of me, but also it was my fault even though in the story and even in my own feelings sometimes, I say well, I really am the one to blame.  I made an A-double-S-U-M-E.  I said hey, just keep an eye on that tub or something.  He said yeah, yeah, yeah, but he was working doing tech support, so he was focused.

 

Then I went outside and I started doing more weeding, and probably mostly…I’ll be honest with you, I was…I don’t know how much weeding or cleaning I was doing, and more…I was probably doing more G-R-I-P-E-I-N-Ging.  I mean, it was in the summer in Syracuse, New York, like 80%, 90% humidity.  But so, whatever.  I did lose track of time ‘cause we were doing stuff and then I totally forgot about it.  Then I heard all this yelling.  Ended up, tub just kept on going and it filled up.  It overflowed, filled the bathroom, then flowed out of the bathroom and surrounded my brother-in-law.  He was actually unaware of it because he was…I think he had headphones on, and filled the room he was in which had old carpet, so it even made the situation a little bit less not great.  Then someone else came in and they said what in the hey?

 

So, and then yeah, for me, I probably tried to be like well, why weren’t you paying more attention?  But really, it was my fault.  The tub overflowed; I have no idea what point that made, but just to share.  If any of you out there feel like you’re a person, I’m a person too.  That’s the kinda thing…think about all the…water was wasted.  Ended up that the carpet…even…it was old anyway, so we had to tear that out.  I don’t think my daughter took a bath ‘cause there was so much hullabaloo.  But yeah, it…now it’s all okay, you know?  These things happen.  But I never would have thought…I guess…I think in my whole life, that’s the only time I remember that happening, where it was definitely…where I say wait a second, how come I don’t lose track of filling up tubs all the time?  I’m sure it happened before.  Maybe not, though.

 

‘Cause usually…I mean, I think the water…I think the tub has some sort of mechanism for that, but if the water’s on, like you’re filling it up, it…you know what I’m saying.  So, here’s my policy that I have, is only fill up the tub if you’re in the room.  I mean, that’s probably what I should have stuck with, or set a timer on your phone.  I don’t know actually…know what I was thinking.  Maybe I was in the middle of a conversation where I couldn’t just sit there with…and let the tub fill.  I think I was…don’t multitask.  That’s more for me, not for you.  Scoots, don’t multitask.  So, I won’t tonight.  My mind will put multiple things in the path of my task, but tonight I’m here for one thing and one thing only; for you, because you deserve a good night’s sleep.  You deserve a place you could rest and I want to help, so I’m glad you’re here.  I appreciate you coming by.  I work really hard.  I yearn and I strive.  I really want to help you fall asleep, and here’s a couple of ways I’m able to be here for you twice a week.  Thanks.

 

Alright everybody, it’s Scoots here and this is one of these famous myths that was…one of these myths that was never famous that I know about and I heard about.  For some reason, they just never kept…you say well, what never quite caught on as a tall tale, never caught on as part of folklore, never was exchanged by word-of-mouth through generation to generation, wasn’t used as a teaching tool or to reinforce some belief system.  This was one of these stories that might have only been told a few times, but I happen to be lucky enough to hear it and kinda remember it.  So, I thought I’d tell it to you tonight.  Oh, is it exciting.  It’s the tale of Listicles and Icicles.  This was long ago, back when people had names like that.

 

I don’t know if…somewhere long, long ago, I think in…I don’t know if the year was 1910…but I’m pretty sure that they were named…oh, good question; are they twins?  I don’t know.  Let’s see.  I think they’re siblings, not twins; Icicles and Listicles.  Oh, and I think their parents were fans of that style, though it could be the Roman times.  Is that when people got called that?  Isocicles; wasn’t that a character in a Sleep With Me episode?  Oh, no; it was Isosceles.  But this was quite a tale, as so many of these tales are.  When Icicles and Listicles reached a certain age, they were told okay, well, with…in our family, [00:20:00] in our greater community, when you reach a certain age, we send you out for what we call the Long Walk.  They said oh, like the long walk to the store?  They said, the store?  What kind of science…what’s a store?

 

Then the kid said, I was speaking, actually.  I think that was Listicles.  Long walk to go to the store and pick up some butts or some cigarettes or some treats?  Again, the parental figure said what…where’d you read about that?  Then Icicles said yeah, fiction.  We’ve been reading books called science-fiction.  The parents said well, you’ve reached that age of near maturity where you’re ready to start to make your way in the world, though you’ll still live with us and we’ll still be responsible for you.  This is not just a symbolic ceremony.  You go out on a long walk, not as long as the walk like Craig Mod goes on, and you won’t have a…the parents said, I don’t even know what a camera is.  I know you were gonna…I know you were reading about that, though.  But they said we’re gonna send you out there.

 

Icicles said mama, papa, where do we walk to and why…how long is the walk?  They said, it’s a long walk.  You’ll head out tonight.  You’ll have everything you need.  Where will we go, Listicles said; mama, papa?  The mama and the papa said look, the whole community’s…and they said, and the rest of the members of the community.  Then everybody looked ‘cause they don’t remember what Listicles was asking ‘cause that small tangent got everybody mixed up.  They said, you’ll head out and you’ll be okay.  At times you may feel like you’re not gonna be okay, but as Emma Otter once said, all will be well.  All will be as it’s been, as it be’s, all will be as it is…you know, as a barber bud once said, as it happens, as she was introducing the show.  At that point, Listicles and Icicles were just staring.  Then Icicles said must we go?

 

They said, you must.  So, head off on the long and winding road.  They said, that’s the road we’ve never…we’ve…they said no children can go on the long and winding road.  At that, a guffaw echoed out across the adults of the community.  Then a knowing look, and they said, that’s what everybody…every child says before they’re allowed to go out on the long and winding road.  Listicles and Icicles didn’t get it immediately.  They said, it’s because you’re no longer children.  So, you’re no longer banned.  Then Ice…Listicles I think said can I make an admission?  We have snuck out there just on the edge of town.  There’s nothing blocking that road but two posts and a rope or something, hempin or something.  So, we go out and there’s nothing out there.

 

It goes over some…we went out there ‘cause we said look at me, I’m standing on the long and winding road.  Then we went out on it for a while and it just wound over a few hilltops, back and forth, and it was boring.  But we did go…we have been on the road, so do we really need to go?  Then they laughed and they said every child tries to set a foot on the long and winding road and even takes a few steps.  Some more than a few steps out on that road.  But now is your time to journey on that road.  So, head out, the two of you, and start walking.  Yeah, I guess the first part will be familiar to the two of you.  So, they headed out.  It was, I don’t know, 10:00 AM or something by my watch.  It was warm, late spring.  There was a buzz in the air.

 

There was a fluff in the air for the…as Listicles had said, this was kind of a meadow-type rolling hills situation.  But it was a rutted path like wagons had crossed there thousands of years ago for thousands of times or something, because they had never seen a wagon on the road.  But there was wagon ruts, or so they thought.  They didn’t know for sure.  They headed out and they saw different floating thing…you know, things living in the meadows, kind things or neutral things just buzzing around or floating on butterfly wings.  There was thistles and grasses.  There was wildflowers.  Listicles liked to make lists, so Listicles was…there was leaves and…there wasn’t any moss, Listicles noted.  Actually, Icicles said can you be quiet for a little while?

 

I just want to listen to the sounds of the…what’s around us instead of having…and then Listicles said shall I make a list of sounds?  I hear a buzzing.  I hear a…almost…it’s not a groan, a human groan, but it’s the sound of a forest friend…not…oh, I hear some wind.  I hear nothing beneath everything, but that is something, too.  Icicles said, and alls I hear is you.  I laughed ‘cause they did like one another, though at times they did not.  It was not an all-or-nothing situation for Listicles and Icicles.  Icicles said, I forgot to ask; is this…does this go in a…we…just said it’s a long and winding road; they never told us how long we’re supposed to go out for or whether we’re supposed to turn around and come back.  We don’t even have a destination.  They just said head out on the long and winding road.

 

Listicles was…said well, I had already…I thought about that while we were walking to the long and winding road, and I’m glad you brought that up Icicles, so we could talk about it right now.  Icicles said okay, well…and they were stepping each one with their own motion, but they were traveling at the same pace, though from time to time, Listicles would go a little faster or meandered within a…while Icicles stuck to one of the ruts, except if there was a puddle or something, and then Icicles would go…or, yeah, Icicles would go around that.  So, Icicles waited for Listicles to say the theory.  Then Listicles said sorry, sorry, I was thinking of other things I was hearing that I was gonna list for my listing.  Icicles said Listicles, I wonder if you loved lists and…before…if you were not named Listicles…and Listicles said Listicles; not Ilisticles.

 

Then Icicles said well, if you were named Ilisticles, would you think you would like lists?  Listicles said, I actually don’t like lists.  I mean, I know we’re close and we know a lot about one another, but I guess we don’t know everything.  So, this is yet another opportunity.  I don’t love lists.  I don’t dislike lists, either.  Lists are merely a tool for me to organize things in a way that I could look at and study and maybe move to another list or a collection.  A list doesn’t even necessarily…you could…it could be a pre-list.  You could just make a bunch of words somewhere.  But eventually you might say well, let me look at them in list form.  Then you could say, let me not look at them in list form.  But I’ve found that there’s written lists and then there’s listing off.  Old Listicles, they say, and I know they say it, Icicles.

 

[00:30:00] Just listing off stuff, but how else would you…you only say stuff…it’s…when we speak, it’s mostly linear, except if there’s long pauses between what we say.  It’s all going in a list-like manner.  I would say list-like, not like a…like a list; I mean, yes, like a list.  Not…you know what I mean, Icicles?  You’re right.  I did not know that about you.  I thought you loved lists and…would you say you’re over-reliant on lists?  Again, I’m not trying to…I’m just…this is news to me, so I’d say well, my dear brother Listicles does not love lists but use…do you use lists for your loves?  How else would I count the ways, dear sibling?  Of course I would…but yeah, no, I do.  I find the lists have a great utility.  I don’t know if I’m over-reliant on lists.

 

I would say that it has a well-worn…like, these well-worn…for example, as I already started to make the example but then I said…I thought I would say it, for example, for clarity.  We’re walking on what seems to be wheel ruts.  You know, the wheel was banned in our community long, long ago.  We have no wheels.  Once Baron von Square…Square-Square took over and expressed…and that’s just what we call Baron von Square-Square, that all things circles…well, it didn’t work out, but wheels were the one thing that they said well, we could get rid of wheels.  We might not be able to get rid of all circles; we realize they have a utility.  I think…I know that sometimes the people talk about well, maybe it reduced our mobility because we…there’s also…then it changed our relationships with horses because they said no, no; no horses either for riding.

 

We don’t live in an agrarian community, so we don’t know.  But I know we…in school we learn about how they use those for moving around stuff and…but oh, my point was…so, there hasn’t been a wagon or a wheeled vehicle traveling this road for as long as we know, as long as we’ve been alive, but even mama and papa…as long as…they’ve never ridden…the great wheel ban was before them.  Mama and papa have to be hundreds of years old.  Well, they’re not actually…they…you just feel like they’re hundreds…I know.  I know they’re not hundreds of years old, but if I could…okay, so, what was my point?  I already forgot what my point was.  These ruts in the road, are they a sign this path has been overused or was it a utility that’s left its mark?  So, why would they have the long and winding road…hm.

 

This is very confusing.  So, this is the long and winding road, but…so, vehicles or wheeled wagons used to travel on the long and winding road?  Yes.  Listicles though, you were gonna tell me what your theory was about why we didn’t have a destination and they just said set out on the long and winding road.  Okay, dear sibling…Icicles though, I will need your help on this because while I have a theory — and I think my theory has some validity to it — I also know that I get…I can run away with my expectations.  When I’m making lists of things that are great or things that are not so great, like my all-or-nothing lists, even though it’s a list of all…it might be an all list, all the dreams that are gonna come true for me.

 

Then when you put it in list form…I guess this maybe is answering your previous question, though; it can become a tool that is of…not of use to me, though now maybe this is part of the maturing process that we’re out on this road walking and talking?  Holy cow, this long and winding road really works.  What do you mean, dear sibling?  Well, Icicles, so, I do have a habit of making those lists, lists of who might be my first kiss.  That’s still a list that’s left unchecked, but…or lists of…you know what I mean, all good lists or all not-good lists.  Well, tell me more, Listicles.  So, what if I made a list of…okay, here’s a couple examples.

 

If I would have thought today…I know they said we gotta go to the town square; we have to talk to you about something and…you know, all…this is the one thing no one ever tells you about, that you’re gonna have to go out on the long and winding road, so there must be some point where we’re sworn to secrecy, which I don’t know how that is manifested in a effective way.  But anyway, I would…if I would have made a list of what was gonna happen today whether it was good or even if it was a list of likely things that actually had a likelihood, it…this would not have been on my list.  I see that, my dear sibling.  Okay, so, the other thing is that yeah, sometimes I make these lists that are all positive things, and then the list doesn’t lose all meaning, but it loses some relevance because it creates an unreality.

 

Then I base my expectations on that unreality because I say oh, well, if…you know, those rocket people, right, that could change into a rocket or the drill people that could change into a drill and go into the earth in our science-fiction books, or even the people that said well, I’m gonna become a scientist and people…so, what if I…so, if I came up with a list like that, one day I’m gonna be a rocket person or I might be a drill person that could drill into the earth, or I might be a swimmer breather, a under-the-water person, or I might be a scientist, or I might become a bird, or…you know what I mean?  There’s nothing on that list…even as we descend down, you say well, I guess I could become a scientist.  Doesn’t exist, but could still become it.  Could become a wheel-maker.  I don’t know.

 

I guess what I said is most of my lists, they tend to be on the extremes.  You know what I’m saying?  I do know what you’re saying.  So, I think for this journey, even though I have a general idea of…I’m guessing what’s gonna happen, maybe I could be wrong, even though when I started talking about it, I had full confidence I was right.  Okay, dear sibling, tell me more.  Okay, so, here’s what I think is gonna happen, that at some point on our journey, either…I don’t think we’ll…well, I guess we might reach an obvious destination and that the adults or our entire community will be waiting for us, so that might be a too-optimistic exp…and that it’ll be soon and that…and the ceremony will be completed.  But I got a feeling because I could sense the room, even though we’re outdoors, that it’s not gonna be all like that.

 

So, there will probably be some parts of this…like, I’m just warning you and I know you’re a bit more grounded than me, that this is probably gonna be a more than one day thing because of the packs we have.  We haven’t looked in our packs, but that we’re probably gonna be sleeping somewhere and eating lunch, dinner, breakfast, maybe other meals.  Listicles, that’s brilliant.  We could figure out how long they expect us to be out here by looking through our packs.  Wow, yeah.  So, let’s keep walking, though.  Let’s keep that as an open area of inquiry and not stop until we think we’re gonna have lunch.  Okay, fair enough, fair enough.  So, keep going.  I guess that was it, so I think that at some point we’re gonna reach a destination and then we’ll know it’s a destination.

 

There is a lower [00:40:00] possibility that we are on a loop.  Okay, well, while you’re listing possibilities, any more possibilities?  So, it could be a loop that loops back.  The other possibility is it’s some kind of test and that there’s not a destination.  Oh boy, I didn’t even think about this, Icicles.  Okay, go ahead.  Well, okay, so let me say what I was gonna say first and then I’ll see if I can remember what I just thought of.  So, I was thinking it could be a test to see how long it takes us to turn around and come back home, right?  Like oh, when are we gonna…do we give up?  But what if it’s also a test like that?  Like, to see how far we keep going?  To see if we…you know what I mean?  To see…okay, good…okay, Listicles, I’m with you.  I’m hearing what you’re saying.

 

So, a couple possibilities like you’re saying; this could be a simple combination of a safe, somewhat…but somewhat open-ended journey even though we’re on a rutted path that we’re supposed to follow, that we’re supposed to go out somewhere in the next thirty-six hours or hopefully just twenty-four hours, is a destination and we’ll be…it’ll be our passage into adulthood.  The other possibility is that this is a loop probably about the same time…just guessing by the weight of my pack, but that’s no definitive thing, and that we make it back on the loop in about a day or two.  It could be even simpler than that and that in the next few hours there’s a destination.  So…and those would be nice ways to think about it, right?

 

Or maybe we’re already using some tool…and why did we…why did we go out together in…as opposed to…I guess we don’t have to answer that, but I do wonder…okay, we’re going out together.  Do other people go out together or do they go out alone?  Here’s an idea; what if mom and dad just came up with this for us?  It’s not a…that’s why we never heard about it.  Huh, that’s a interesting theory.  You’re right, that would answer why no other kid has ever said anything, even though we’re all banned from going on the long and winding road.  Okay, but you seem to have other theories, Icicles, so tell me your other theories.

 

Okay, well, some of these theories might go on your list on the extreme of the non-positive extreme, but not totally all the way to the other side, though that probably is farthest to the…if mom and dad just came up with this to send us out, I don’t know if I’m comfortable with that.  Well, we do have the packs, so that’s something.  Right.  Well, what if we open up the packs and there was just heavy books in there?  Well, then it would be like we were in some sort of fictional…like, that…I think that’s something from reading our fictional…let’s go with that though, Icicles, since we’re not gonna open our packs for a little while.  Then it is like a science-fiction book we read.  Wow, you’re right.  So, what if…yeah, so, we were setting out on the journey and it seemed like a…so, what if we say yes to more than one of these?

 

So, we thought we were getting…sending out on the long and winding road as a part of a community ceremony to embrace our adulthood but it was really just something our parents had arranged for some reason.  Then we set…then as we kinda discussed and we tried to come up with things…though I guess this idea wouldn’t hold too much weight because they didn’t tell us not to open our packs, did they?  No, but they did put them on our backs and then set us forth and clipped the things, which would have dissuaded us.  They didn’t put them on our backs ‘til we were already at the edge of the long and winding road.  Okay, but let’s just imagine that we open the packs and they’re empty; they’re just full of, whatever, like…it doesn’t feel like rocks, but books and rocks or stuff of no value to us out here.

 

So, then we would probably…most people would just maybe…I don’t know what we…what do you think we would do?  Well, there’s a forest ahead.  It doesn’t look like an ominous forest coming down this last large hill we’ve gone up.  Looks like it’s a small…what do you call that?  Canyon, and then there’s some hills and…yeah, there’s a stream or river that runs through it, and the path clearly goes into the forest or woods up there.  Okay, so this would be the part of the thing where…and it’s almost getting towards lunch.  We will have lunch before we get to those woods.  So, anyone else would be looking in their pack by then, more than likely.  Then you discover your pack’s empty.

 

You could easily get back…I mean, the more…the most likely outcomes would be go back home immediately, continue on into the woods for, I don’t know, two or three more hours and then head back, because at least you would be out…and you could even go further.  I’m just saying, because you could eventually…as long as you’re following the long and winding road out of the woods, it’s pretty easy to follow.  Then you would get back at night, and then maybe they have a celebration for you then, or maybe they’re on a long watch.  They could ease…also easily send out some of the people that are better at walking fast or running to come out and get us.  Yeah, I’m not saying I feel really…even with this theory, I don’t really feel uncomfortable.

 

Well, I mean, there’s certain things I feel uncomfortable about, Icicles, but I don’t feel…I feel like Emma Otter said, all will be…all will be what it be, but all will be well kinda too, because it will be as it is.  Right, and that is something we’ve been taught.  I mean, here’s the thing; if that’s the truth and we open up the packs and there’s nothing in them, part of me would want to go…maybe it’s a way of…part of me would be really…I don’t know if I’d want…like, long-term, I would question whether I would want to make a long-term residence in our community, and I don’t think I would like…you know, say well, let’s say I move to another town or city or whatever.  I’d say well, you could come visit, but you’re gonna have to stay somewhere else to mom and dad.  Well, why?  Well, because of the long and winding road.

 

You could visit me and my new family and I appreciate it, but yeah, you’re gonna have to go home after dinner, go to a…stay at an inn.  Oh Icicles, you’re so much better at those kind of boundaries than me.  I would have just kept it…I would have been keeping a list and checking it twice, but I don’t know what I’ll would have said.  So, what do you think we would do, though?  What do you think; if the packs are empty, what do you think our move is?  Well, I wouldn’t want…I would want to do something that they wouldn’t expect just to try to find a way to teach them a lesson, I guess.  Yeah, same here, which would just be keeping going, but I don’t know if we could responsibly keep going.  I mean, I guess there’s the river, so we could drink out of the river.

 

We could keep going…I mean, along the river, I did not see any signs of anything…and I know that once Lord Square…Baron von Square-Square came, they tried to separate all our communities out, so it’s like…I mean, oh yeah, ‘cause…so it’s longer than a two-day distance between every community.  Yeah, I think it’s like…for a below…for a above-average walker, it should take two-and-a-half days, and I don’t know if that’s constant walking.  So, we won’t encounter any official communities.  But it would make sense that a community would be along the lines of the river, right, and if we stayed by the river, we’d have water.

 

We’d probably…we’d have to make sure the water’s good to drink, or just give it a shot, but then we wouldn’t have anything to eat and we’d…[00:50:00] I mean, that probably is fine from my understanding of that, for a couple days.  So, I would say we would try to go follow the river up through the canyon through the woods and then see…keep following the long and winding road, I guess.  If that did not work and there isn’t a branch, we could head up…I think it looks like we’re gonna be heading…oh no, we’re gonna be heading upstream, so then we could head downstream, which makes me think that this river or stream probably goes below ground at some point and feeds the aquafier or aquifer in our community.

 

So, then we would make it back, but then why wouldn’t we just take the road back, the long and winding road?  So, if our packs are empty, that would be my vote in this moment, though I’m sure my tune will change as the hours go on, or if we test out the water.  I think what we should do is take some [inaudible] to the water when we get there, and then give it a couple hours, see how we feel, and then stay…maybe even take a break by the stream or river or whatever.  You know what I’m saying?  That’s why I trust you, dear sibling.  Okay, so, that’s interesting.  Here’s an idea; I was just making…not lists in my head but as you were talking, I was categorizing and thinking…I was trying to listen to everything you were saying intently.  I don’t know if you could tell.  I even tripped a couple times ‘cause I was looking at you.

 

But so, here’s what I’m thinking; what if we just keep going?  We don’t…’cause we’re…now we’re almost at the lunch…where we would eat lunch.  We don’t open the packs…what if we don’t open the packs ‘til tonight and we try out your water thing anyway?  Is there a downside as long as we’re staying on the long and winding road?  I mean, maybe we have to go off the long and winding road to get to the river?  I don’t know.  It’s tough to tell with those trees that are coming up.  But this looks like a pleasant enough…everything’s kinda spread out.  Yeah, I think as long as we…I think that’s a good theory.  I mean, I was also thinking why…I don’t sense that anybody’s keeping a eye on us, which would be kind of…I don’t know if I would be comfortable with that, too, like some adult observers.

 

So, that’s…what if there was kids that just didn’t want to stay on the road?  That’s my question, is did they just expect us to stay on the long and winding road?  I don’t know.  My theory with that would be…no.  I mean, there might be kids that…or, well, one; that kinda makes another thing…you’re right.  Maybe mom and dad just set this up for their own life lesson.  But it does also make me think that…there would be some kids — depending on how long they’ve been doing this ceremony — that would go off the road or something.  Okay, here’s another idea that just popped in my head, Listicles.  Now that we’re in this forest, it’s a bit cooler.  Good thing we have our cloaks wrapped around our waists.

 

Also, that gave me confidence that if we had to sleep, it shouldn’t be too cold tonight, but we should be fine because we have these cloaks we can wrap ourselves in, or lie on them, or a combination of both ‘cause they’re so…they’re like those sloaks that person invented.  Yeah, I love my cloak, too.  What were you saying, though?  So, I was thinking about Baron von Square-Square, right?  One, easy person to blame for this.  I guess it was a natural progression to blame our parents.  Maybe we should have blamed Varon bon Square-Square first.  I don’t understand, dear sibling.  Okay, well, here’s the thing; so, two possibilities within a range of possibilities.  What if one, this is some sort of edict Baron von Square-Square makes every community follow for whatever reason?

 

Because Varon bon Square-Square is just from a generation of circle-disliking, controlling rulers.  This serves some sort of other purpose or is just a way…whatever.  Maybe they’re…I don’t know.  That’s one thing.  Or…well, I guess then there’s three possibilities or more, or our community came up with this ceremony to blame…and then when we get back, they’ll blame Varon bon Square-Square, and then we’ll live our lives loathing Baron von Square-Square even more, and that one day that may serve some purpose.  Or it just serves a purpose that we believe in our community leaders more than Baron von Square-Square.  Okay.  Yeah, I can see that as a possibility.  I mean, Baron von Square-Square could be great and just says well, sir, here’s a list of reasons why circles and wheels aren’t great.

 

There’s plenty of reasons you could come up with.  Yeah.  Another thing could be either Baron von Square-Square or our community…this is some sort of preparation.  They say okay, well, this was…this is to prepare you for dealing with Baron von Square-Square, or the Baron von Square-Squares of the world.  Okay, there’s…river’s…that’s…it is a stream or a creek.  Should we go off the path?  We’ll be able to see the path and the creek from this part right here.  Should we go to the creek and drink a small drink?  I think only one of us should drink a small amount.  Okay, I’ll do it, because then I can make a list of anything I’m thinking of or whatever.  Okay, go ahead.  Let’s walk.  Oh, wow.  It’s very clear.  I don’t see anything floating in it.  It’s coming from that hill, and I know that there’s…I think…yeah, okay.

 

Oh, it’s cool and refreshing.  Not too refreshing; I don’t want to make you jealous, Icicles, but I imagine it came from melted ice.  So, yeah.  Okay, let’s keep going.  I don’t know if we…do we need to rest?  No, let’s keep going and figuring.  So, did you have any other theories, Icicles, or were you…?  Well, I was just thinking this could be a preparatory thing or something like that.  Yeah, I guess it could be.  Well, here’s the other thing I was thinking, Icicles; so, it’s apparent to me that we’re heading in…I mean, we’ve been long and…we’ve been winding, right?  But then I think about this…so, the road is definitely winding.  We’ve been winding.  We’re winding through this forest, and eventually we’ll wind our way up through that pass up there that we can see above, and it seems like a fairly low-altitude pass, so it shouldn’t be a problem.

 

We should probably bed down or something or maybe go up and then come back down, depending on what time we get to the elevation gain, but that will be a long and…that’ll be a winding road.  How do you define long?  If it’s winding, then it’s automatically gonna be long even if it covers a short distance.  Wow, that’s something only a list-lover could come up with.  That’s a brilliant point.  But then they put long first; long and winding, not the long…the winding, long road or the long, winding road.  The long and winding road?  Is that what they called it?  I think that’s what they called it.  I don’t know anymore.  You’re right.  That tells me it’s pretty long.

 

I don’t know, I get the sense that maybe we’re out here…and it is open-ended, and if it isn’t…if it is open-ended, now I’m glad we’re together and I think we can support one another on this long and winding road, but if it is…so, if it is a open…and I think we could just answer this question on our own, right?  We keep going and we go up this mountain pass and if we rest, before we go up there, we go up there ‘cause now I’m noticing our progress.  I’m saying okay, it’ll be about 2:00 PM when we get to where we start to go uphill, so if we go uphill for about an hour and a half, which I think we could cover…[01:00:00] well, anyway, it’s not important.  I just have lists on my mind.  But then we could either turn around if we don’t get to the top and we see what’s in front of us, right?

 

But we keep going if we stay committed to it, and I think at different points during this journey, depending on how long and winding it is, each one of us will lose investment in it, right?  So, I think we could…while we’re still feeling good…and by the way, I feel great after that drink, so that’s another bonus but also another reminder that we could return to that, so we should set a general idea of time, which I’m pretty good at tracking…non-offense, but better than you, List…Icicles, to return to the river and drink more fully.  So, we’ll go up to the top of the mountain, right, or the top of the pass, and we’ll see what we see, and then we can always come back down here and sleep in the woods.  But if we get to the mountain pass, right, then we’ll be pretty much a full day’s journey away.

 

While we technically could walk all the way home, that would be a pretty long walk, and we don’t know what’s in our packs, which I think is good.  But whatever’s in our packs, I mean, I’m beginning to think if we don’t have…that your boundary thing is correct, that…I don’t know.  Maybe this is a part of us looking at our community’s values.  Again, this isn’t on a list yet, but…and saying well, I don’t like our…if this is what our community values, to send us out as children and expect us to return as adults, we just keep…I would say if we come…if we keep going, then we’ve made that true whether it’s true or not, and I would not…I would say, then what’s the difference between Baron von Square-Square and home, huh?

 

That is some heavy stuff, but it’s a good thing we carry those…that all is as it is and all will be well when it is as it is, because you’re right, dear sibling.  We’re already starting to elevation-gain early which I would say will put us a little bit ahead of track, so then we could come back…no matter what we see up at the thing, it would be a good idea to come back.  We could drink water, then we could look through our packs, and then sleep the night in the woods either way.  I mean, unless there’s something right on the other side of the pass, but I don’t think there could be unless it’s like you’re saying some sort of loop or there’s a giant party up there waiting for us.

 

I would also agree that while I think this is another opportunity like you’re saying…so, I think you’re having very strong feelings about this now, and I…but I think that’s also a good thing, so I’m here to help not like to see…to help you, to help care for you, and respect what you’re saying, but also to say we don’t need to make a decision right now either, is the wonderful thing.  But I do respect your opinion and I actually share it as…if we did live in a community or we had a family, and no community or family’s perfect, but if the value system of that said hey, get out there…here’s how you become an adult symbolically and literally in our community; is to head out on a path, a long and winding road with a pack.  Maybe the pack has all the supplies you need.  Maybe it doesn’t.

 

But use…you go out and then we’re gonna see what happens, that we should have…we should have the openness to make a decision based on that, huh?  Yeah, I think we should.  It’s…yeah.  Yeah, I mean…but I…yeah, I guess you’re saying it’s kinda already reached a conclusion and you’re saying to me be more open before I reach the conclusion.  But you’re open to my conclusion; you’re just saying hey, we don’t have to make a decision at this point about it, either.  But you’re all…I think it’s also underlined by the belief that…I mean, right now it’s fine and once…wow, we’re really making good time.  We’ll be up to the top of this pass very soon.  But yeah, I don’t know if I…again, I shared; wherever the belief is, it’s like…I guess it’s true…here’s the thing, that maybe you didn’t even mean this, but I just made this connection based on what you said.

 

So, if it’s based on that and it kinda feels H-A-R-S-H or whatever, not very loving, to say hey, head out on this path.  Maybe you’ll turn around in a few minutes and we’ll be here waiting for you to come back.  Maybe that’s what most kids do.  Oh, there’s your lesson for adulthood; you’re not an adult yet, or oh, this is part of adulthood, or maybe some people go out further.  Maybe there’s stuff in our packs; maybe there isn’t.  Or maybe some kids go off the path or maybe they send somebody out running…is to…there’s the harsh side of that that is like well, I don’t share that and I’m not comfortable with that anymore, but there’s also the idea that they’re accidentally making it true.  What do you mean, dear sibling?  Well, so, we got to the top of the pass, right?  Here we are, looking out.

 

It’s not that far down but it is a little bit steeper path down.  It’s still winding and it’s still long because I think that was the more…well, that was one side.  You could kinda see that if we go down this way, there is another…we’re in some sort of a hilly…not quite mountainous region.  I would say that there’s a combination of plateaus here and they probably capture the rainfall and in the winter, the snowfall.  Then they feed these different streams that…again, I read a book of lists.  That’s why; of our region’s ecology.  But I can see to the…so, the long and winding road, if you watch it go off, it kinda goes in there.  But also down there, if you look off to the side, I’m pretty sure those…because it is spring; you notice that, that there’s a very fertile region down there?

 

I’m almost positive those are wild berry brambles and that those may be other fruit trees or something down there.  Can you see that?  Yeah, I think those are stone fruit trees or something.  I think we should head back down to the river.  It’s gonna take us almost no time since we’re going right back downhill.  I guess this is my thought about it, and again, we don’t have to…well, I think I’ve made one decision but again, I’m making the decision and you could make it with me, but I think we go back down to the river.  Maybe someplace we go off a trail where we could kind of rest by the trail and see if any of the adults do come along and make a decision, ‘cause I don’t think we’re gonna be sleeping very restfully, or we could kinda take turns watching out.  But I just think we do that and keep each other company.

 

Again, it might be…we might have to moderate one another and care for one another, right?  Because this couldn’t…it might not be easy.  ‘Cause see here, here’s this…I was thinking we could go off there, ‘cause see how there’s all those bushes?  If we go off the path here, then we go to the river — it’s behind the bush down there — then we could come back and lie behind these bushes for the night.  It’s not that far off the long and winding trail, but we’re not sleeping on the trail.  So, we kinda have a little bit of cover for comfort but also say well, if the adults come looking for us, we’ll hear them, but I don’t…you know what I mean?  I do know what you mean, dear sibling, but I think you have one more thing to say.  I’m gonna drink some of the water now.  [01:10:00] Yeah, drink it up.  I’m gonna drink some, too.

 

I’ve made a choice about my pack and I don’t know if you were thinking this or not, but I have made a choice that whatever happens…so, we could keep going tomorrow; we’ll rest tonight.  I feel pretty good about the fact that…I feel good about the water I drank and that we could get over that pass in the morning, go down and eat some berries and some stone fruit.  There was a marshy…it looks like there’s other streams because this is a plateau or a series of plateaus.  We could see where we go, and again, we’re not that far from our community.  We could keep going, but we could keep going in stages.  But I’m gonna go without the pack.  I’m not gonna look in the pack, I think.  I think I’m just gonna throw my pack in the river here, the stream.  Ah, dear sibling, I guess…let’s stand here together.

 

Is it okay if we put our arms around one another and hold our packs in front of us?  Yeah, it is okay.  Can I tell you how much I care about you and how much I love you?  I love you too, dear sibling.  That’s when I say dear sibling as a combination of love and appreciation.  Yeah, and we’ve never been perfect.  Our relationship hasn’t been, but I think we stand here and we’ll hold our arms out and we’ll decide what to do with these packs, and we’ll go on from there knowing that all will be as it be and all will be well as it is.  Then we’ll say to one another goodnight and get some rest, and we’ll go on from there.  Goodnight.

 

[END OF RECORDING]

(www.leahtranscribes.com)

Notable Language:

• A Meadow-Type Rolling Hills Situation
• Dear Sibling
• A Combination of Plateaus

Notable Culture:

• Emmet Otter
• Barbara Budd
• “The Long and Winding Road”

Notable Talking Points:

• When we speak, it’s mostly linear
• Deducing a trip length by packed supplies
• A Very Fertile Region Down There