1439 – Nap Divine | Crossover

Episode 1439 – Nap Divine | Crossover

 

SCOOTER: Friends beyond the binary, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it’s time for the podcaster who’s gonna talk naps and a little nap-based crossover, so…but it should put you to sleep at nighttime, too, 'cause it won't be a prescriptive episode. Or, it’ll be somewhat descriptive or barely descriptive. I don't know if it’ll be discursive or what. But welcome to Sleep With Me. It’s a podcast to put you to sleep and keep you company, take your mind off of stuff. Very different than what you might expect with a sleep podcast. I’m here to be your friend in the deep, dark night and distract you so you could fall asleep versus putting you to sleep directly. So, this show does take some getting used to, and…but I’m glad you're here if you're new. Or, you're a regular listener, so good to have you back.

 

But what we got coming up is support so that paying for the show is optional particularly for new listeners or people that only listen from time to time, and then after the support will be a long, meandering intro meant to ease you into bedtime, not so much to put you to sleep but to set things in motion. So, I guess slow motion to put you to sleep. That’ll be the intro, then after that I’ll be talking about a couple articles from my friend Matt and his newsletter that he wrote about napping. Yeah, all told, we’ll be here about an hour to hang out with you while you fall asleep, to be your friend in the deep, dark night. Like I said, the show ideally will be always free for everybody, and the way we're able to do that is when the people that benefit the most from the show, that listen the most, so people that listen three, four, five, six, seven nights a week, have listened for years, listen to more than one episode a night, when the people whose lives are changed by the podcast support it back, that’s the way we're able to be here for everybody else.

 

There’s a thousands listeners who are just new or only listen from time to time, and they benefit when…if you're one of those people…you say, this podcast has made my life so much better; how can I support it back? You could either support one of these sponsors, or we’ll probably request here to support the show directly. Those are the ways you could support it back. Thanks.

 

Intro: Hey, are you up all night tossing, turning, mind racing? Trouble getting to sleep? Trouble staying asleep? Well, welcome. This is Sleep With Me, the podcast that puts you to sleep. We do it with a bedtime story. Alls you need to do is get in bed, turn out the lights, and press Play. I’m gonna do the rest. What I’m going to attempt to do is create a safe place where you could set aside whatever’s keeping you awake. That could be thoughts on your mind, thoughts about the past, the present, the future, thoughts you're thinking about or thoughts that are thinking without…you say, I’d rather not be thinking about this stuff.

 

That’s normally what happens for me. It could be feelings, anything coming up for you emotionally related to those thoughts or feelings that are just there making an appearance, left over from the day, or about something coming up, it could be physical sensations, it could be changes in time, temperature, routine, work schedule, you could be…you could work a totally different schedule, you could be traveling, you could have guests, you could be…you could have something big coming up that you're excited about or thinking thoughts, feelings, or physical sensations about. Whatever it is, the reason I kinda run through some of that stuff is to let you know you're not alone and that I’m gonna be here to try to help you, but that I get it. While I might not know exactly what brought you here, maybe I haven't experienced the same thing, but a lot of the stuff, the feelings are…we could relate on some way, or at the very least I can relate with you the fact of like, you'd rather be asleep right now.

 

You wouldn't be listening to my show unless we had something in common, right? ‘Cause you'd rather be sound asleep like I would have rather been multiple times last night. I’m here to try to help with that. The other good piece of news is that whatever it is that’s keeping you awake…'cause sometimes that can make me feel isolated, whatever it is that’s keeping me awake, sometimes when it’s baffling and sometimes when it’s specific. I don't know if it’s ever been Pacific. Specific, but Pacific…I’m sure something Pacific…a Pacific breeze might have kept me awake or something. I don't know if I’ve ever been close enough to the Pacific sleeping for it to keep me awake. Pacific Sleeping, that’s another scent from Sleep With Me that was never invented. Sleeping Pacific, I guess, or it could be two different ones, though I prefer Sleeping Pacific over Pacific Sleeping. Sleeping Pacific also was in the vein of 90210, Dawson’s Creek, Melrose Place, the other…what was that?

 

Laguna Beach, other shows like that, a little bit of a rom-com. Not a rom-com; a soap opera. Only existed just like the perfumes and colognes within my mind. I was trying to say…oh, whatever’s keeping you awake, there is someone listening right now who has experienced something very similar and who can greatly relate to you and who’s kinda seeing you in the deep, dark night in a indirect way and rooting for you, wishing you well, hoping you get the rest you need on a regular basis, 'cause they discovered the show at some point and they were like, I didn't think this show would help me out, but it did. I’m glad I found it. And they hope the same for you. Now, they could be anywhere in the world. Not only do they hope this podcast helps you out, but they hope you get the same experience they're experiencing now, which is that you get to root for somebody else in the deep, dark night, and…that’s hurting like you hurt in the deep, dark night. That’s important 'cause it reduces that.

 

It gives us something…it's something strange. You say, I don't have much control over this sleep stuff, but I could think fondly of somebody else that’s dealing with the same thing I am. Like, I control over that, and then I could just listen to a sleep podcast and see how it goes. That’s why I make the show, so hopefully it can help you out. The only reason I point all that stuff out is 'cause ignoring it kinda feels like what most people in our lives do, or dismissing it. We're here so that you could get the rest you need so your life is more manageable tomorrow, and you could get the rest you need on a regular basis so you could be out there in the world, flourishing. The way the podcast works is I send my voice across the deep, dark night. I use lulling, soothing, creaky, dulcet tones, pointless meanders, and superfluous tangents. I go off topic, I get mixed up, then I forget what I was talking about, then I go back and repeat myself, then I say, wait a second, what?

 

All of that…so, those are pointless meanders and superfluous tangents, and creaky, dulcet tones means my voice is not traditionally soothing, but some people from time to time find it soothing or distracting. This is a podcast that does take some getting used to. What I mean by that is that it’s very different, the idea that you've been looking for something to help you fall asleep, right, and somebody recommended this show or you found it in a search or you found it by accident. You said, sleep podcast? Sleep With Me? I thought this would be more soothing or more sleepy. I don't understand. So, if you're skeptical or doubtful or frustrated, that’s a really normal place to be, and that’s how most people get here. In fact, most people that support the show on Sleep With Me+ said it took two or three tries. At first a lot of people that love the podcast said, at first when I got here I didn't like you or I didn't know what was going on.

 

Now, I know there are exceptions to that rule, but that’s the way most people got here. The first time they're like, what is this? I don't think I like it, but I’ll try it. Then the second time they said, oh, this isn't that bad. I still don't quite know…I don't get it. Then the third time they said, oh, I woke up in the morning. Now I get that I don't get it. Oh, okay. Now I understand. I never knew to look for something like this or that it could exist. It is very specific. The show just doesn't work for everybody, but even for the people it works for, it takes a couple tries. The other thing is if it never works for you or you already know that it’s a no, that the show won't work for you or that you don't like it, that’s fine, too. Everything I said up until this point is still true. So, I have a website set up, sleepwithmepodcast.com/nothankyou, so you could find something. It has other sleep podcasts and sleepy stuff on there. You could find something to help you out. So, check that out.

 

Now, if you say, I don't like you at all, totally. That’s normal. Most people, that’s totally normal. So, check out sleepwithmepodcast.com/nothankyou, 'cause I still want you to get a good night's sleep. But give the show a few tries. You got nothing to lose, really, and we could kinda hang here. So, that’s one thing I’d like you to know. The other thing is it is different listening to a podcast you don't really listen to, 'cause you say, yeah, this is like someone you're not paying attention to, but you're kinda pretending to pay attention or you're barely listening. So much of our lives…and even actually so much of what I’m trying to get down during the day is to be…we gotta be a better listener, right? We gotta do more active listening, more paying attention. More being in the moment is what I strive for during the day. At bedtime, I don't want to be in the moment, right? I want to be distracted from the moment, so then something happens beyond my understanding and I’m asleep.

 

I don't want to do any active listening at bedtime or work on listening skills. That’s what the show is about. You could pretend. Like, what if…? I’m not saying to do this, but at bedtime…with this show it’s totally fine to practice inactive listening, passive un-listening. Uh-huh, uh-huh, great. That’s great, Scoots. I’m listening. Uh-huh. I do a lot of ‘ums’. It’s a good thing this show doesn't have a drinking game where I’d have to have a sip every time you said ‘um’ or ‘uh’…a listening game, 'cause it’d be…so, those were both gratuitous and not gratuitous. They just happened. So, now I can't even remember what I was talking about. So, this is a podcast like background noise, like a audiobook you're not interested in, like a TV on in the other room, a show streaming under your pillow. It’s something that’s there that you don't have to engage in, but you could engage if you wanted to, like a friend telling you a story for your benefit, but they say, hey, don't…you don't need to pay attention.

 

I’m just gonna talk to you about these articles I read and maybe make some comments about them for about an hour. But if you fall asleep, that’s fine. I’m just here to talk for your benefit. That may work once in a while with a really good friend with a certain skill set that is…yeah, that I may or may not have, too. But it doesn't…it's not something we can enact all the time. So, that’s…it's a podcast you don't really listen to. You'll kinda see how that goes. It’s also a sleep podcast that’s been around since 2013. I’m not actually here to put you to sleep. There is no pressure to fall asleep with this show. There’s a reason the episodes are over an hour, so you don't have to think about it. There’s people listening who can't sleep at all or who need a break during the day or who are just tuning in in the middle of the night, or they work a really different schedule and they need the show.

 

I’m here to the very end for them and for you, whether you're awake or asleep, so that…I don't know, because my job is not to put you to sleep but to hang out, to be your bore-friend, your bore-bae, your neighbore, your bore-bie, your boreman, your Boris Borelaf, your chairman of the boreds, your bore-sib, your bore-cuz, your bore-bruh, your best bore-friend f’eva, to just keep…just to be here, a mild distraction in the deep, dark night, a presence, a kind voice that’s outside of whatever’s…you're dealing with to tell you a story and to be here for you. That’s what the bore-friend does, the bore-bae. So, that’s my job. The only other thing…I mean, I’m really glad you're here. I say that a lot on the show, but I really am. I don't normally say it in this part, but I was just thinking, thanks for listening, and I hope I can help you. I like to meet you where you are and explain the structure of the show, particularly if you're new.

 

It could be a little bit of…confusing why we structure the show the way we do, and it’s important because it’s…meeting you where you are is important, but we’ve found that this particular version of the show is what benefits the most people, a listener and sponsor-supported version of the show, where paying for it’s optional. So, the show starts off with a greeting; friends beyond the binary, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and that makes people feel seen and welcome. You say, okay, I could check this show out. Then there’s support form sponsors and requests for listener support. If you're new or you only listen occasionally, that’s not important. It’s really only important for the people that benefit the most to support the show. If you prefer something without ads, you could get that on Sleep With Me+. But yeah, the sponsors, that’s the way we're able to keep the show out and available to anyone.

 

After the support, totally separate from the support, is a show within a show, the intro of the podcast, which we're like fifteen minutes or so into. It’s usually somewhere between fifteen and twenty minutes long where I try to introduce the podcast and I go off topic, I get mixed up. It’s totally separate from the support, and it’s not meant to put you to sleep. It’s meant to be familiar. You say, okay, Scoots is gonna explain what the podcast is yet again, but he doesn't…I do a new intro every time. I just talked to myself in the third person. I got mixed up. But I do do that, too. But now I’m already confused 'cause part of me wants to make third-person jokes. You say, he can't even make a joke about the third…the second person said, none of this is funny. Say, couldn't even get…anyway, so, what was I saying? Structure of the show, intro…oh, the intro goes on and on and on, but it’s…so, it’s familiar 'cause I follow kinda the same pattern, but my tangents are always different.

 

I think that’s a key thing to point out only because it never worked for me; repetition never worked for me. Consistency and familiarity works for me, of having a consistent bedtime and a consistent bedtime routine. But if I read the same book or listened to the same exact thing, my brain would just start pointing everything out and I’d start thinking, feeling, or all that stuff again. So, that’s why the intro is different every time, because you're important and I want to help. The reason the intro is fifteen to twenty minutes, other than that I go on tangents, is so that you have a wind down, a kinda grace period or a buffer between being awake and asleep. That’s what works for me, is having a wind-down routine and having something that’s a part of that, right, to ease you into bedtime whether you're in bed getting comfortable, you're getting ready for bed, or you're winding down, doing some other chill activity, stretching, petting pets, doodling, laying around, looking out the window.

 

That’s something that makes bedtime nice…for me, it’s nice. I’ve had quite a few nights of good bedtime routines without good sleep. But I said, at least I was kind of…up until then I was in a great…things went well. That’s what’s under my control, is having a nice bedtime routine, and maybe this could be a part of it for you. That’s why the intro goes on and on and on. Now, if you fall asleep fast and you're hearing me, please support the show, 'cause the show can't exist without people that fall asleep fast supporting it directly, 'cause there’s no sponsors that…it's just not conducive. So, if you fall asleep fast on a regular basis, please support the show. If you find you just prefer something without intros, like just the story parts of the show, don't worry. We have a ad-supported, listener-supported version of the podcast, Bedtime Stories from Sleep With Me, that has…what do you call it? Just the stories of the show from a few years ago, too, so it feels fresh.

 

Then if you support the show on Sleep With Me+, you have access to tons of story-only episodes, including the latest episodes all the way back. I think there’s 6, 7, 8, 900 story-only episodes in that feed. So, some people do prefer story-only versions, but most people like getting eased into bedtime with the intro. So, you could just discover what works for you as you become a regular listener or build a playlist within your podcast app of what you like as you become a regular listener. You'll discover what works best for you. I just want to give you some options and meet you where you are, 'cause a lot of times…even…I can feel stuck, and anything I can do to help with that is my job. Okay, so after the intro is support, again, so paying for the show is optional, optional up until the people that benefit the most, and then there will be our bedtime story. Tonight it’ll be kind of a crossover episode. It’s not with a podcast; it’s with a writer, but…who writes about napping.

 

So, that’ll be cool, and we’ve been working on this for a while. Then we’ll say goodnight. That’s the thing. I’ll be here a bit over an hour. I’m really glad you're here. I work really hard on the show. So do a bunch of other people. So, if you fall asleep fast, if you listen all night long, if you've listened longer than three years, if you listen to more than five episodes a week, we’ve been trying to get your attention since April of 2025. You’re the people we count on to keep…for the show to exist for everybody else. So, if you're hearing me right now, please consider either supporting one of these sponsors or supporting the show directly, 'cause we really need the people that benefit the most to support the show back so it could be here for everybody. Now, if you're not in those groups, you're new, you only listen time to time, every couple months for a few weeks at a time, don't worry about it. We got you. The other listeners got you. Thanks, and if this podcast has changed your life, here’s the ways you could support it back. Thanks.

 

Hey everybody, this is Scoots, and this episode is based on a newsletter. But Matt Hoffman, who is the writer behind the stuff we're reinventing for this episode, has a new podcast out I wanted you to know about and to check out. It’s called Bub and Pop. That’s B-U-B and P-O-P, Bub and Pop. Now, Matt’s a music journalist, and the podcast is about music, careers in music, life, the universe, and everything. It’s a conversation and so much more. You gotta check it out. It’s in every podcast app and on YouTube. That’s Bub and Pop. There will be a link in our show notes, and you could check it out on socials, and on social media it’s also @bubandpop. So, check it out. Now here comes…Scoots, take it back from Scoots.

 

Hey everybody, this is Scoots. So, this is a crossover episode with a newsletter and a writer friend of mine, Matt Hoffman, who has a newsletter, To Nap Divine, about napping, kinda like Scriptnotes and things interesting to people…it's about napping and things interesting to people that like naps or nap…curious about napping and stuff like that. Trying to put this out close to Nap Day, National Napping Day, but I may put it out at another time 'cause…yeah, I just might. But Matt’s someone that writes about music, writes about napping, and who has interviewed me for these articles. We’ve also just had a lot of great conversations about music and trying to stay creative and navigate being creative and following pursuits, especially sleep-related pursuits. So, what I’m gonna do is sleepify two articles that Matt did about napping. If you check out Matt’s…To Nap Divine has a archived…of the newsletter, and Matt’s still pursuing writing and stuff. So, I’ll link to everything. You gotta trust me.

 

But I want to…sorry, I got distracted as I was….I was supposed to be looking at one article. I started looking up other ones. So, the first article is from Mental Floss. It came out in July 26, 2025. The Best Way to Nap According to Experts. The image there is a very cute one of someone taking a nap with a puppy-poo. Now, Matt points out to start out the article that napping is a little bit like cilantro or pineapple on pizza. Some day…some people really love naps or snoozes and attribute a lot of benefits to them, and then others…people kinda downplay it as something that happens or that they are not able to do it, or they wake up and it wasn't helpful for them. I guess I could weigh in on naps later once I get through this first article and tell it to you, 'cause maybe I’m gonna learn more about naps and napping.

 

Though naps, Matt points out, can get a bad reputation 'cause some people feel groggy after a nap or have trouble getting to bed at night, maybe there’s…maybe some of these tips about napping will help you redefine your relationship with napping. ‘Cause Matt points out that a few simple tweaks…anyone can elevate their cat-nap game and even improve their overall sleep hygiene. With these tips you'll be on your way to becoming great…excellent at napping. Here’s where Matt tells us what he’s gonna tell us, like great writers do. We're gonna talk about timing mattering for naps, a power nap versus a sleep-cycle nap. What’s the difference? What about coffee naps? Why do they Matter? Then finally creating the perfect sleep soundtrack. Huh, I wonder…interesting. Alright, so let’s get into timing for naps. The key to timing naps correctly is to align them with the natural dip in your circadian rhythm. I can't believe I got that right on the first try. Maybe I didn't.

 

Circadian rhythm…I love how that…circadian rhythm. Here’s a question for Matt when he’s listening to this; can you give me a list of bands with ‘circadian’ in the name, albums with ‘circadian’ in the album title, and can we create a circadian playlist that has nothing to do with anything except everything has circadian…? What about Sir Cadian? I guess that could be a future Sleep With Me character, Sir Cadian. Somebody can remind me of that, too. How come that’s never been a thing before? I gotta get on that, Sir Cadian. Okay, but let’s get back to this article already, Scoots. Thank you, Sir Cadian. Sir Cadian, could you help me out the rest of the way? Sure, but I’ll just be boring, super-chill, boring Scoots. You could call me Sir Cadian from now on. That kinda does sound like it would be your hip-hop name, self-given. So, I don't know if it can be…can you give yourself a name? Well, you gave it to me. I’m super-chill Scoots, which, you also gave me that name. But I’ll be Sir Cadian.

 

How about I take it from here, Scoots? Oh yeah, people love hearing from you, so let’s do it. Okay, so you're trying to align your nap with the natural dip in your circadian rhythm. That’s your internal clock that regulates your sleep-wake cycle. Sorry, I thought you were taking it, and then I took it from you. It’s okay, Scoots. I’ll take it from here, 'cause that was a close one with clock, which is clock. The best time to nap is related to your waking time, and this is according to Dr. Sara Mednick, who’s a cognitive neuroscientist at Cal Irvine — which if you're from California, you could say that. If you're writing an article for Mental Floss, you would say University of California, Irvine — and the author of the book Take A Nap! — exclamation point — Change Your Life. Okay, put Sara…Dr. Sara Mednick on your radar, Scoots. Sir Cadian here, though.

 

Though other experts such as Dan Pink, the author of When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing…now Scoots, aren't you reading a book by Daniel Pink but not about…? You could use The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing, huh? Yeah, I’m reading a book or kinda I was in California. My goal is to start reading it again. But yeah, it’s kind of about trying to find…anyway, this is about perfect napping right now, so let’s just…we always make this about us, but let’s…and I don't know if that was…that wasn't a humble-brag 'cause you didn't really…Sir Cadian, you don't really need to humble-brag. No, Scoots, I was just making an observation. But anyway, The Secrets of Perfect…Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing by Dan Pink cites research that divides us into three chronotypes. Interesting. When our energy levels are at their peaks, there’s larks, who are morning people, owls, who are night people, and third, birds, which is everybody else.

 

Researchers actually have developed assessments that Matt links to in the article, and…can we take the assessment, Scoots? As well as Dr. Mednick created a nap wheel to help would-be nappers gain a better sense of the right time for a snooze. But let’s just finish this part of the article, then we’ll go on a tangent, okay, Scoots? Take it away, super-chill Scoots. So, SC…super-chill Scoots is SCS, so I could be Sir Cadian, SCS. But yeah, those who wake in the morning between 6:00 a.m. and 7:00 a.m., the best time to lie down and nap might be between 1:00 and 3:00 p.m., kinda post-lunch. That’s your body’s cue for a nap when you get a little slumpy after your post lunch. A little shuteye at that time won't interfere with your nighttime sleep, and it works with your body’s natural rhythms that…but if you nap later in the day, obviously, it’s gonna interrupt your tending to fall asleep later. Then we have the power nap versus the sleep-cycle nap. Dr. Mednick says the nap duration is also important.

 

The power nap is a short ten to thirty-minute doze. This duration allows you to get the benefits of increased alertness and focus without entering deep steep…deep steep…you know when your tea over…you know what you don't want your tea to do is enter deep-steep stages, or maybe you do, but you don't want it to over-steep. So, you want to get it at the perfect deep-steeping stage. But we're talking about deep sleeping stages. Waking from deep sleep often creates sleep inertia, which is that groggy feeling that can last for several minutes or even an hour. Now, if you have more time and are thinking about your memory, you could take a ninety-minute nap. This will allow you to complete a full sleep cycle. It will also minimize the odds of having sleep inertia. But be careful, 'cause your…you don't want to over-play with your circadian rhythm, which is that…was that how you got known for having a circadian rhythm, Sir Cadian?

 

Scoots, thanks. Coffee naps, why do they matter? Perhaps counter-intuitively, coffee and naps can be a great combination. The coffee napper, nappuccino, as Pink calls it, works by taking advantage of the time it takes caffeine to kick in. You've thought about doing this, Scoots. You've even tried it occasionally. But usually you're just not able to nap, and it doesn't fit your lifestyle or your sleep cycles, really, but we could cover that later. But yeah, you could try for a cup of coffee right before your nap, or I think a nappuccino is like having an espresso. You could listen to that song, too, 'cause that would kinda give you some feels. It may be too much of a ear worm at some point, though. So…but maybe just listen to some Sabrina Carpenter.

 

I don't know if you do that while you're drinking…yeah, have a cup of coffee or an espresso while you're listening to Sabrina Carpenter, then set a sleep timer and then set…or listen…find a Sabrina Carpenter album that lasts twenty, twenty-five minutes, but also set an alarm so you wake up in twenty, twenty-five minutes, and then you'll wake up feeling refreshed from the repose, and the caffeine will kick in. Now, this doesn't work for everyone if you don't have caffeine or you just can't time it. Now, regardless of how you do it, napping can be for everyone. It doesn't have to be frustrating. By paying attention to timing, duration, and other factors, you can unlock the rejuvenating potential of a well-timed snooze. That could be one of your songs, too. Scooter’s writing my material, so I just have to read it. A Well-Timed Snooze; that sounds kind of like a nineties album title. Sir Cadian: A Well-Timed Snooze.

 

‘Cause, Scoots, I prefer not to be a one-hit wonder or a two-hit wonder, though I’ve heard interviews with certain nineties one-hit wonders that…I don't think this is the case anymore, though, but then, eighties, nineties, maybe, you could actually do well enough for that to live a nice, leisurely lifestyle. Pretty rare, though, probably. Alright, let’s get into the perfect sleep soundtrack, maybe…so, we got Sir Cadian, we got Sabrina Carpenter. Those sound more like winding-down type songs. What else do you have for us? Well, the right environment can…is the key to restorative daytime slumber, and sound often plays a role. While some people might like complete silence, others find there are types of background audio that can be conducive to a restful sleep. White noise, nature sounds, rain, ocean waves, ambient music can help mask clamorous distractions. Oh boy, I love Matt’s use of ‘clamorous’. So, you know who makes…? Matt makes clamorous seem glamorous. You put the glam in clam.

 

Clamorous distractions to promote better relaxation…others have been…have developed podcasts that help you fall asleep. There’s Northwoods Baseball Sleep Radio where Wally McCarthy, amazing human being and podcaster, calls imaginary, old-time baseballs games between imaginary teams. Like, you've gotta listen to this podcast. I’ve promoted it on the show before. But the amount of…it's just an amazing piece of art. Each episode replete with imaginary players, imaginary advertisers. Also Sleep With Me, and if you're not into podcasts, you could check out the BBC shipping forecast, where broadcasters calmly deliver weather reports for the seas around the British Isles. Each forecast is only a few minutes long, but also people put them on YouTube and put them together. So, to sum it up, napping is great, and studies show that a regular siesta can have a lot of benefits, especially where mental and physical health are concerned. So, yeah.

 

Okay, so, let’s check out some of these links that Matt linked to. Chronotypes…let’s do the assessment. We’ll check out the nap wheel. Alright, so this first link goes to a CNBC article, but we're gonna come back to this one. Let’s go to the chronotypes. This is on Daniel Pink’s website, danpink.com. This is a link to the online version of the Munich Chronotype Questionnaire, which is in the process of being moved. Let’s see if it got moved. No. Let’s see if we put in MPCDF…MPCDF. Okay, that stands for something else, so that didn't work. Let’s try Munich Chronotype Questionnaire. Okay, we have a PDF at UPenn, their school. Then let’s see this one. There’s also Daniel Pink links to the Horne-Ostberg Morning-Evening Questionnaire. Oh, he also put a paper version. Okay, so let’s try…this is automated morning, evening questionnaire. Welcome to the questionnaire. Oh, that one costs money, which I’m just not in a place to do right now. Okay, this is a deeper dive here, this next link.

 

I think these are links that I found. Okay, this is the UPenn…I think it’s a article, though it does have some of the questions. So, Scoots, are you ready to try to answer some of them? It doesn't feel like it’s that long. Scale scored by the website when it’s…which is available. So, let’s just like at the questions. Okay, but I think my answers are not gonna be accurate, 'cause right now Koa doesn't sleep very well, so I can't…but I’ll try. Okay. Okay, so, what time do you have to get up at? What time do you have to get up at, Scoots? Right now unfortunately it’s whenever Koa gets up, which today was 5:00. Yesterday I can't even…I don't even remember. But do you want me to do also an imaginary example? Sure. Okay, so, I’d say I’d like to get up…well, if…I would like to get up at 7:30. Currently, in November of 2020…I’m recording this in November of 2025. With the time change I like to get up between 7:00 and 7:30 if…but only…but I haven't been getting up that early because I haven't been getting solid sleep.

 

But 7:00 to 7:30. Okay, great, Scoots. That was a very concise answer. Can you tell that super-chill Scoots has been listening to Doughboys to get that…? He’s trying to play a little…trying to make this…just so you know, those two actually like each other. So, it’s just the fun nature of the show. Okay, I didn't say anything about how much I like you, Scoots. I just work with you. I’m Sir Cadian, by the way. Oh, soon to be OBE, probably. Okay, so how long do you need to wake up? Okay, normally…right now I can't answer that, but if I was in a rhythm…if I was in my normal rhythm I would wake up at 8:00, but I think…that was when I lived in California and the light was…I’m trying to get a good relationship with light here, though I haven't been successful. But I would say from what…I’ve been doing the sleep podcast for a while…immediately, as soon as I wake up, I get out of bed, though also with the temperature…so, I don't need very long to wake up. I would say one minute.

 

Okay, do you regularly wake up before the alarm or with the alarm? Koa is my current alarm, so I wake up with the alarm. I try not to wake…I try not to use an alarm. Okay. From 0 o’clock, I’m full awake. From when I get up, I’m fully awake, even before I have caffeine. If I slept eight hours, I’m usually fully awake. Okay, at what time do you have a energy dip? That’s a good question, actually, and I’m not trying to brag, but if I’m functioning like I normally do, I don't have…I’m not usually…I don't usually have an energy dip. That’s one of the reasons…not only is it…unable to nap, but I just don't see a time that my nap would fit in, kinda like Matt said, unless it was like…I may have a energy…I more have a focus dip than a energy dip. Okay, thanks for answering that question. I’ll just head around zero…is there…could you just…? Yeah, I just don't have an energy dip, so I don't know what to tell you. Okay, it’s a good thing we didn't pay that $10. On nights before workdays, I go to bed at o’clock.

 

Okay, again, not a consistent answer, 'cause I have no idea how long it’ll take Koa to fall asleep right now. Honestly, that could be anywhere from thirty minutes to hours, so…but usually…okay, let’s just say if I have to get up…if I wanted to get up at 7:30, that’d be 11:30…so, I would want to be…I would want to go to bed at 10:30. Other than my…reading…I want to start reading fiction at 10:30, so the rest of my wind-down routine is done. Okay, so if you do that, it takes you about thirty minutes to a hour to fall asleep? Yeah, I would read…in a perfect world I would read fiction for thirty minutes, I would fall asleep at 11:00, and then, yeah, I’d have…if Koa was sleeping soundly, then I would probably have thirty minutes of waking in a perfect world, yeah. Thank you. You're improving at this. If I get the chance, I like to take a siesta and nap. Correct or not correct? Oh, no. Yeah, correct or not correct? Not correct. You would sleep for…? What was the last…? You have taken naps before, though.

 

Yeah, I mean, I like to take a nap on…like days when…days of leisure. I just don't have a lot of days of leisure where I’d be mostly alone and living a leisure…like, I just…if I’m doing…if I’m living a day of leisure, I’m probably doing something, otherwise I’m trying to run a small business. So, I do try to get my sleep at night, I guess. Okay, this isn't…this is just a questionnaire. It’s not a comment on your value system. But so, I’ll just put…I guess this is kind of…you would…how long would you nap if you could nap for? I like that idea of a thirty-minute nap, twenty-five minute. So, I would nap for thirty minutes. How would you feel afterwards? Good or not good? Well, if I was…in a perfect world, good. I mean, the few times I do nap, normally I do feel pretty good after, though sometimes I nap for twenty minutes…yeah, I guess the last nap I took…I can picture it. It was in…since I moved here, and I think I took about a twenty to thirty-minute nap. Okay, these are free days, so those were on workdays.

 

My dream would be to sleep until…I don't know, I like to get up at…every day, but let’s just say 9:00. Okay, but you normally wake up at 7:00, 7:30. None of this is accurate, though, currently. It’s a good thing Munich’s not getting any of this, you know? Okay. If I wake up at my normal time, I try to get back to sleep. Like, if you…so, let’s say it’s the weekend. If you stayed up later, you would go back to sleep, right? Correct, yeah. So, let’s say I went to bed at 12:00 or 11:30 or something, really running wild, yeah, I would try to go back to sleep until 8:30 or 9:00. If I went to bed at 12:00, I’d probably need to sleep ‘til 9:00 or 8:30 or 9:00, yeah. Okay, correct. If you had gone back to sleep, you would sleep for another hour to two hours, so 60 to 120 minutes. How much time would you need to wake up after that? If I got eight hours, one minute. Okay, and then you'd be awake immediately, right? Then on those days, would you have an energy dip?

 

More likely, 'cause I kinda just said that on a weekend it’s more likely when I would have an energy dip. ‘Cause, yeah, maybe I woke up, so I’d have a energy dip around 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 p.m. Okay, on nights before days off, what time do you go to bed? Well, this is actually a part of my value system, so…because I have a lot of people that are strict about their bedtimes in my life, and they get up early every single day. I kind of…I have strong feelings about that, saying you're going to bed. So, I will try to stay up either 'cause I’m caught up in the moment or out of social compact or family compact. So, I will stay up between 11:00 and 12:00, or not even start my bedtime routine ‘til like, 11:00, or shorten it if I’m going to bed 11:30, 12:00, 12:30. Okay, we’ll put 11:30, then. How long will it take you to fall asleep? I mean, I’ll probably be pretty tired. I would probably…nah, I still wouldn't skip my whole bedtime routine. I’d still do it. So, it takes still about forty-five minutes to fall asleep. Okay.

 

If you get the chance, you would take a nap? I would, but if it was a weekend, I’d go for sixty minutes even though it’s not recommended. Now I know thirty or ninety. Okay, and how would you feel afterwards? Depends on the sunlight situation, to be honest. If the sun’s out and the sun’s still up, like I wake up at 3:00 p.m., I could get access to sunlight, I feel good. If it’s a gray day here on the eastern zone or I sleep ‘til it’s dark, then I’m not gonna feel good. Okay. Once I’m in bed, I would like to read for…thirty minutes. Can we…? Yeah, thirty minutes, but generally…I generally fall asleep after no more than thirty minutes. I prefer to sleep in a completely dark room. That’s correct. I wake more easily when morning light shines in my room. Correct. Right now you're using a sleep mask, right, Scoots? Well, I alternate for…yeah, and I wash the other one. But yeah, I haven't been able to darken my room yet 'cause I’m still unpacking even though I’ve lived here for two months.

 

Yeah. Okay, that’s fine, that’s fine. I wouldn't…don’t let your internal objector get in the way of this. How many days…how many…how long per day do you spend on average outside exposed to daylight? On workdays, if there’s daylight…or in California, at least an hour, between walking the dog, running, or sitting outside. On free days, probably two hours. Now, here in a place where there’s less sunlight, I’m trying to get thirty…anytime there’s sunlight, I try to specifically walk the dog, but also, even when it’s cold, work outside, 'cause there is a sweet spot here if it’s not cloudy with the time change now between 10:30 and 1:00 when there is sunlight, 'cause we also live in a hilly area. Okay, thanks. Oh, don't say you don't need my bio. I’m just answering the questions. So, I don't know at this time, but thirty minutes. But you also run, so on the weekends you’re probably still getting a hour here if the sun’s out.

 

Okay, so after you answer those questions, you should have a general feeling of which chronotype you might…let’s see what they list. They don't actually describe them here. It’s nineteen questions. Maybe later. So, then you might have an idea. So, here’s the questions. Extreme, moderate, slight, normal…so, there’s early type and then there’s late type. Okay, let’s see. So, after you try to feel…you should have a feeling of the time of day type you belong to. So, if you like and manage to sleep quite a bit longer on free days and work days or if you can't get out of bed on Mondays, then you are more of a late, go-to-bed-early type. If you feel perky when you wake up and jump out of bed, then you're an early type. Try to categorize myself. I mean, honestly I’d say I was maybe slight early to normal. Okay, so you're…for your sleep chronotype, you're slight early. So, Type 2 to Type 3. Okay, I could see that. I’d say, yeah, you're somewhere between a 2 and a 4.

 

As a child you were…well, I didn't really have a choice, but even on the weekends we would wake up to watch cartoons. So, I would say I was a 1, moderate early type. Not like I woke up…because I do have a nephew that’s a 0, like a super-early type, and he’s very quiet. He stayed here last weekend. But…okay, great, Scoots. As a teenager you were extremely…but that’s due to lifestyle as well. I would sleep ‘til 2:00. If you're older than sixty-five…okay, so you don't have…currently you're…okay, so, your parents are…my father is a 0, extreme early type. I’d say my mom is the same as me, 2 to 4. Okay, what about your siblings? Okay, so I have one brother that’s a 0, one brother that’s a 1, my sister is a 4, between 4 and 6. I have another brother; he’s probably 3. I have two more brothers…I’d say they're 3s. So, I have two possible 0, one definite 0, another possible 0 to 1. Yeah, he’s a 0. So, two 0s, one between 4 and 6, and then two 3s or between 2 and 4.

 

You’re not in a current relationship with anybody. Well, I guess you are with Koa, and Koa would be…if this was where we rolled a 20-sided dice, she’d be a chaotic, chaotic. Okay. Okay, so, that’s the questionnaire. Let’s take a look at the nap wheel here. Oh, you just take your wake-up time and…let’s see, if your wake-up time is 8:00 a.m….here’s how it works; so, this is on Dr. Mednick’s website, saramednick.com. Whether you want a [inaudible] your nap to keep alertness or slow-wave sleep or extra REM, the nap wheel will help you. Okay, so, the numbers represent twenty-four hours in the day. The yellow circle is the slow-wave sleep. So, at 8:00 a.m. the slow-wave sleep would be between 5:00 p.m. and 7:00, 8:00, and 9:00. Stage 2 is constant. REM sleep would be between…I don't understand how to do this 'cause I’m reading it while I’m doing it. Why don't you slow down? Okay, so, the numbers on the outer edge of the wheel are twenty-four hours in the day.

 

A bright blue circle represents the amount of REM sleep you're likely to have each hour of the day. So, you would go into REM sleep between 6:00 and 11:00 a.m. At each hour the yellow circle represents the amount of slow-wave sleep which increases the longer you've been awake. Stage 2 is the constant in the equation, whether you're napping at 2:00 p.m. or 2:00 a.m. So, the first twenty minutes of any nap are gonna be exclusively Stage 2. So, when you start programming your naps, the first thing you'll do is set the wake-up time to the hour you woke up. Then you'll follow the hours clockwise until you reach your desired ratio of REM to slow-wave sleep. Notice that naps occurring before 1:00 p.m. will have more REM, and those later in the day will have more slow-wave sleep. So, for a 7:00 a.m. person, a ninety-minute nap at 1:30 p.m. could be called the perfect nap. Let’s see, let me take a look at that. 7:00 a.m….oh yeah, 'cause it peaks at 8:00 p.m. Wait a second, 1:30…don't understand…1:30 p.m.

 

So, 7:00 a.m., 1:30 p.m….oh, that way you stay out of those sleeps. Okay, so you stay mostly in Stage 2 sleep with just a little bit of each one. Okay, I get it, 'cause you don't want to get into those sleeps. So, for you, Scoots, it would be between…I guess 2:00 p.m….2:30 p.m. is the perfect stage. Okay, now I get it. Anybody can go to seramednick.com/napwheel to try that out for themselves. Alright, this is…I forgot. Super-chill Scoots, Sir Cadian. We took a little break after that. Scoots did not take a nap, but we're returning to Matt’s articles, 'cause the next article, oh boy, is it exciting. Were we supposed to cover something else, Scoots? Your relationship with naps? No, I think that’s it. So, let’s cover this next article by Matt, but Scooter does not have the original article, so give me a second here. Okay, this is the famous…Ten Modern and Famous Nappers. This is from Mental Floss, January 22nd, 2024, but this is also something Matt’s been chasing for a while. Like we said, napping is great.

 

Many famous people throughout history, politicians, artists, musicians, actors, and athletes have discovered the benefit of napping for themselves and incorporate it into their routines. Below is a list of figures who definitely appreciate a good mid-day rest. This isn't a countdown but it has numbers, so we…coming in at number 1, 'cause they're the first person on the list…number 1, Thomas Alva Edison. Now, that’s a renowned inventor, Thomas Edison, or Thomas Alva Edison if you're being official. I guess if you were monogramming pajamas to give him a gift in some sort of imaginary world or monogram, it would be TAE. So, that’s another thing to note. The only reason I thought of monogramming is because Scooter was…Scooter and I have been watching a little bit of Family Ties 'cause Koa has been watching Family Ties, and a lot of it. She seems to like it, not as much as The Addams Family, but we’ve tested Gilligan’s Island, ALF, Cabot Cove Mysteries, Bob Ross, the Bob Ross channel, Who’s the Boss?

 

Those have been the competition. It’s kinda like a sleep podcaster who wants…she really liked Bob Ross for a while, and then it seemed like she grew out of it. Cabot Cove Mysteries…we haven't been able to find the channel again, but she did seem to like that. Not love it; she didn't love…you could tell she loves it 'cause she’s always sleeping. It’s kinda like her sleep podcast. Who’s the Boss? She seems…all those…and ALF she didn't…she probably liked that the least. Gilligan’s Island, it came on by accident, that she seemed to like. So, I’d say top tier, Addams Family by far. Second tier, whatever, that was…whatever they do. I don't know those ratings that people do on the internet all the time. But the A rating we give to Family Ties. What else? Bob Ross, though maybe she moved it to a B tier without telling us, and Gilligan’s Island. But we gotta get back to Thomas Alva Edison. Made the list for a good reason, according to Matt. Well, his…he had a controversial view on sleep around here.

 

He didn't like it and thought it was antithetical to productivity, and instead preferred periodic naps. He preferred periodic naps, often in one of the many cots he had spread around his property. Sometimes he would sleep outside on the ground, and sometimes even when he had guests, he was hosting company at his home. When he woke up from his nap he would feel rejuvenated and ready to continue his work. By the way, fun fact, Matt pointed out Edison invented 1,093 inventions. So, that’s Thomas Edison. Number 2, Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill…another avid memoir pointed out in his memoir, according to Matt, that he shared his view that people were not meant to work a full day without the blessed oblivion of a nap — yeah, put that in the word guides — even a twenty-minute one. Now, he wasn't…he did have other issues that may have made him sleepy, but typically when he was running the show he was sleeping every afternoon for an hour or more.

 

So, is that the secret to his success? I don't know, but he did love napping. Number 3, coming in at number 3, Salvador Dali. No list of famous nappers is complete without Salvador Dali. Salvador Dali? Dali. I mean, I’m always like, huh, am I pronouncing it correctly? A pioneer of surrealist art and also in napping. In his 1948 work, Fifty Secrets of Magic Craftsmanship…I gotta check this out. That just sounds like a book I should be reading, you know? Dali claimed that napping was essential and shared his secrets to napping effectively. The key is to sit in a chair lightly holding a heavy key or object between your thumb and forefinger while dangling your arm over the chair. Then after dozing off, the noise will wake you. At times he used a metal mixing bowl and spoon in place of keys. This was how he did his naps. This unique approach to soothing was all part of his method.

 

Oh wow, I gotta check this out; a series of practices Dali explored to access his subconscious and enter into a kind of waking, dreamlike state. So, huh, interesting stuff. I gotta test that…test his theories out even though it’s not a theory. That’s number 3. I wonder if he was a guest on The Addams Family. Someone played Picasso on The Addams Family, but I don't want to get too tangential right now 'cause I want to get to all these famous nappers, including…you may be a parrot head and you may…what are some famous parrot heads? I could think of Justin from My Brother, My Brother, and Me, but Jimmy Buffet was a napper. What better way to follow a cheeseburger in paradise than with a snooze? I could agree with that. Vacation napping…holy moly, and…I mean, back when I used to have…I didn't have a lot of margaritas, but if I did it would have probably been during the day and I had a nap afterwards, 'cause there had just been a little bit of pre-gaming for me.

 

But a cheeseburger and a nap is amazing. According to a 2016 interview with the New York Times, Buffet talked about his love of napping. In fact, the story of the Margaritaville brand begins in 1996 when he woke up from a nap. Years later he went on to name his final album in 2023 Equal Strain on All Parts after his grandfather’s description of a nap. Huh, interesting, interesting stuff. I really like that. Okay, I had thought of some other tangent but now I forgot what it was. Axl Rose…holy moly. In the stock photo they have, Axl has a belly shirt on or a crop top. He’s got…man, he’s got a little washboard going there. So, in 2011 there was a opening band for G&R. Oh, I was gonna say, 'cause I used to nap on the days I did live shows. That was always a big part of my live show routine. So, I can understand…I don't know, 'cause the preparation for it and then the build-up, and then you want to be rested. Almost all my live shows I would try to take a nap, and I would get tired in anticipation of it.

 

So, I could see these musicians or performers being big into naps. Okay, G&R in 2011 was supposed to be opening at The Forum. Or, the band was opening for them, Puppy City. This is in LA. This is according to their bassist, sticks, and their drummer sticks, and their bassist Lexi. But they couldn't hold a sound check in the four hours before the concert because Axl was napping in the arena. So, he wanted total quiet in The Forum. So, that’s pretty cool. That’s power. Okay, next up is…it's someone that could go by one name, Lin, Lin-Manuel Miranda, or you could just say Lin. He might say, no you can't, but…I think this is one I recommended to Matt. I don't want to brag, but I remember seeing a photo of him backstage in a bed in a really small backstage room. I don't know if it for Hamilton or In the Heights. But maybe taking a nap or talking about napping, and I just thought it was so cool. It was so New York 'cause I think it was a black-and-white photo. Those rooms were just so small.

 

You imagine them huge, I guess, in your head, or I do. If you saw the Michael Keaton movie that takes place a lot backstage…I can't remember if that room was big or small now. So, I don't know, I guess that wasn't very useful. But yeah, let me see if either…there’s three links here. But yeah, creative force behind Hamilton, Encanto soundtrack…hasn’t said anything explicit about his love of naps, but his fondness for them couldn't be clearer except for these photos of him catching a few winks. So, yeah, let’s just check these photos. Coming in, if I can find them…okay, there’s one of him sleeping in a recliner. That’s not it, but he looks comfortable. Oh, here’s this Dali thing with Freud. I’ll have to check that out later. Then I think this is a airplane or a bus he’s sleeping on with headphones, and then the third photo…not the one I was thinking of, either, but he’s…him and Usnavi are sleeping together, Javier Munoz. So, they're taking a nap.

 

I don't know if it was back…I guess it would be backstage 'cause…and that was from…is there a date on this? 2013. Oh, yeah. Okay, so, that’s Lin. Next up, someone who I’m pitch…I tried to pitch a movie to indirectly on Sleep With Me, Natasha Lyonne. Now, according to Matt, New Yorkers don't always fit the stereotype of a napper, but she’s not shy about her love of a siesta. In 2022 she said that hosting Saturday Night Live through off her nap regimen, describing the show as a real wake-up central. It’s not the only time she’s talked about the love of a snooze. In 2014 she talked in Interview Magazine; I’d rather take a nap than get a strong…deal…I’d prefer a nap over some other things. Next up, Novak Djokovic. Now, that’s a great tennis player, one of the greatest tennis players in history. At the time of this article, he ranked number one, but also takes their sleep schedule very seriously. At time…turned to short naps to supplement his target 8.5 nightly hours.

 

His dozing tends to run up to thirty minutes, and he wakes feeling recharged. Also meditates. So, sometimes it’s the nap, sometimes it’s the breathing exercises that will recharge me and allow me to have a bit more energy for the rest of the day. So, that’s great. Okay, next up, NFL quarterback Jacoby Brissett. With the time…was…of the article was the quarterback for the Washington Commanders, but I believe is Arizona’s quarterback currently. But Jacoby considers napping as important for him as meditation for calming and unwinding after a tough game. Just a couple of minutes just to be to myself and kinda relax, and all the commotion of meetings, walking through walkthroughs, workouts…just trying to relax a little bit, he said in 2022, and even former coaches agree. He’s a big nap guy, one of his former coaches on the Cleveland Browns said. Finally, number 10, coming in at number 10, Mikaela Shiffrin, a gold medalist who’s been enthusiastically vocal about her dedication to napping.

 

Again, you kinda see a trend here of these big…then we have big build-ups or big events. The first thought I’ll have upon waking up is I cannot wait for my nap today. I don't care what happens; I can't wait to get back in bed, she told Outside Magazine in 2017. She reportedly catches extra Zs for an hour or so daily, even getting a little shuteye in the snow during downtime in competitions. There’s a link to a nice New Yorker profile. So, yeah, that’s it. Make sure to check out Matt Hoffman. Use the links in the notes. Maybe we could get him writing about napping more. But you could also read a lot more of Matt’s writing, and…friend of the show, so…and actually, oh, funny story. So, Matt and I have been keeping in contact and saying, yeah, we gotta do some sort of crossover episode. Matt and I knew each other well enough, I think he had my phone number. Maybe not…oh no, that’s what happened. So, I was at a theme park, not in the town where I live, with family from even further out of town.

 

I think I got back to the hotel to take a nap or for my…Sophia to take a nap or just a mid-day break, 'cause this was in the summertime. I had a message from Matt. Maybe it was at night, though. Did I just see you at this theme park? It was like, yeah. Then we never…we missed each other 'cause he was there for a competition for someone. So, a small…yeah, just two ships passing in the night. So, that’s it. Check out Matt’s work. Use the link in the show notes. I hope you enjoyed this crossover version, and I guess going…alternating between super-chill Scoots and I, and you learned a little bit more about napping. What a great…I would love to take a nap right now, but I guess I’m gonna check on Koa and make sure she’s taking a nap. Thanks and goodnight, everybody.

 

[End of recording]

Transcription performed by LeahTranscribes

Crossover

 

Pacific Ocean

https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/ocean-fact/pacific-size/

https://sharktourshawaii.com/blog/11-awesome-facts-pacific-ocean/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/pacific-ocean

 

to nap, divine / Matt Hoffman

https://www.tonapdivine.com/

https://www.mentalfloss.com/live-smarter/healthy-living/best-way-to-nap-expert-tips

https://www.mentalfloss.com/history/most-famous-nappers-history

 

Nap Wheel / Chronotypes

https://www.saramednick.com/napwheel

https://www.danpink.com/mctq/

https://goop.com/wellness/health/what-is-my-chronotype/?srsltid=AfmBOoqE042TpVTVAHOdbMBCqw6ISukV9G0QEV9ZRvN5ZMGI44WT_1QI

 

Online Tier Lists

https://web.archive.org/web/20171229150505/https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/12/tier-lists-are-garbage/

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2510.01382

https://www.fanbyte.com/legacy/s-rank-gaming

 

DOWN TO BUSINESS

I’m gonna talk naps

Nap-Based Crossover

Barely Descriptive, Maybe Discursive

Setting things in slow motion

 

PLUGS

Sleep With Me Plus; Nap Divine Newsletter; Bub & Pop; SleepPhones; Story Only Feed; Emily Tat Artwork; Crisis Textline

 

SPONSORS

Helix Sleep; Zocdoc; Coyuchi; Blue Land

 

INTRO

Thoughts that are thinking without you

Feelings that are making an appearance left over from the day

You wouldn’t be listening unless we had something in common about sleep

Something specific and pacific about not getting enough sleep

Pacific Sleeping and Sleeping Pacifici, scents from Sleep With Me

The perfumes and colognes within my mind

Someone else is rooting for you right now

We’re here so you can flourish

If you’re skeptical, that’s a normal place to be

We can just hang here

A podcast you barely listen to

So much of our lives is about being a better listener

Being distracted from the moment

No active listening at bedtime

Doing a lot of Ums

Good thing there’s not a drinking game every time I say, “Uh”

I’m just here to keep you company

Ur Best Borefriend 4 Eva

The job of the borebae

Thanks for listening, and I hope I can help you

Explaining the show structure

A new intro every time

Third Person Jokes

Familiar, but different

Consistency–not repetition–works for me

A crossover with a writer who writes about napping

I’m really glad you’re here

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STORY

A crossover with Matt Hoffman’s to nap, divine

We’ve had a lot of great convos about napping and music and creativity

Mental Floss – “The Best Way To Nap”

Napping is a little like cilantro or pineapple on pizza

Some people feel groggy after napping

Redefining Your Relationship to Napping

The different type of naps

Creating the perfect sleep soundtrack

The key to timing naps

The natural dip of your circadian rhythm

Matt, can you give me some playlists involving the phrase “circadian rhythm”?

Sir Cadian

The natural dip of your internal clock

Sir Cadian (Super Chill Scoots) will take over

The best time to nap is related to your waking nap

Let’s not make this about us, let’s get back to this podcast

Three Chronotypes

Larks (morning people)

Owls (night people)

Third Birds (everybody else)

Researchers assess what type of bird you are

Can I take this assessment right now?

Dr. Mednick’s Nap Wheel

Super Chill Scoots (SCS)

Sir Cadian, SCS

Early bird nap time – 1-3pm

Power nap vs sleep cycle nap

Nap duration is important

Power nap – 10-30 minutes

Increased alertness without entering Deep Sleep

Don’t let your tea enter Deep Steeping Stage

Deep Sleeping leads to sleep inertia and grogginess

A 90 minute nap is a full sleep cycle and minimizes sleep inertia

Be careful when you play with your circadian rhythm

Coffee and naps can be a great combination

Napaccino

Takes advantage of the time it takes for caffeine to kick in

A cup of coffee right before your nap

Sip an espresso while you listen to Sabrina Carpenter, then nap for about 20 minutes

Napping can be for everyone

Unlocking the rejuvenating potential of a well-timed snooze

Sir Cadian doesn’t want to be a 90s one hit wonder

The perfect napping soundtrack

Some prefer silence, others prefer background noise

Matt makes “clamorous” seem glamorous

You put the glam in clam

You gotta listen to North Woods Baseball

BBC Shipping Forecast

Let’s check some links that Matt links to

Let’s do the chronotype article

Munich Chronotype Questionnaire

Let’s look at some questions

Right now, Koa doesn’t sleep well, so my answers might not be accurate

I get up when Koa gets up

If I could, I’d like to get up around 7:30. But I haven’t been getting solid sleep, so I’ve been getting up later

Super Chill Scoots has been listening to Dough Boys

How long do you need to wake up?

When I lived in CA, I’d get up around 8

I’m trying to get a better relationship with light in NY
I wake up with the alarm (Koa)

Koa O’Clock

When I’m awake, I’m fully awake

I don’t usually have an energy dip

There’s not a time when my nap would fit in

But I might have a focus dip

On nights before work days, I go to bed…after I’ve put Koa to sleep

Maybe 10:30? That’s when I want to start reading fiction

In a perfect world, I’d fall asleep at 11

I’ll nap on days of leisure, but I don’t have a lot of those

This is just a questionnaire, not a comment on your values system

I’d ideally nap for 30 minutes, and I’d love to feel great afterwards

The last nap I took was about 30 minutes

Free Day time

On a free day, I’d get up around 9

If you stayed up late, you’d wake up later, right?

If I get 8 hours, I’d only need a minute to wake up

I’m more likely to have an energy dip on the weekend around 2pm

I have a lot of people in my life who are strict about their bedtimes

I’ll go to bed earlier to accommodate them

I’ll nap better if there’s lots of sunlight

I like to read for about 30 minutes

I wake more easily when light shines

I use a sleep mask

I haven’t been able to darken my room yet

I’m still unpacking

How long per day are you exposed to sunlight outside?

In CA, at least an hour

In NY, I’m trying to get 30 minutes

Results

What time of day type do I belong to?

I’m Slight Early to Normal (Type 2 to Type 3)

Or somewhere between a 2 and a 4

I was a Type 1 as a child

My teen self was an extremely late type

My father is a 0, my mom is a 4

My siblings are a blend of different types

Koa is Chaotic Chaotic in regards to sleep
Let’s look at the Nap Wheel

I don’t understand the nap wheel

The likelihood of REM sleep increases the longer you’re awake

Align your nap time to when you wake up

Earlier in the day – more REM sleep

Later – more Slow Wave sleep

I guess for me, the perfect time would be 2:30pm

We took a break, and now Sir Cadian is back for another article

Were we supposed to cover something else? No

“10 Modern and Famous Nappers” – Mental Floss

We can do this as a countdown

#1 – Thomas Alva Edison

Monogramming for Thomas Alva Edison

Koa and I’ve been watching some Family Ties

Koa and I have been watching a lot of old shows

Koa probably liked Alf the least

Top tier – Addams Family

Bottom is Alf

Edison preferred periodic naps to regular sleep for productivity’s sake

He had cots everywhere around his home

Edison invented 1,093 things

#2 – Winston Churchill

He loved the blessed oblivion of a nap

#3 – Salvador Dalí

Pioneer of surrealist art and napping

He had a nap technique that involved holding a metal key

Did Dalí ever guest star on The Addams Family?

Famous Parrotheads

Jimmy Buffett

Buffett loved napping

#4 – Axl Rose

Axl’s wearing a crop top in this stock photo

Man, he’s got a little washboard going on there

I used to always nap on days of live shows

I can see why performers would be big into naps

Axl was napping in the arena, so his opener couldn’t soundcheck

#5 – Lin-Manuel Miranda

I think I recommended LMM to Matt

I saw a photo of LMM napping backstage at a broadway show

#6 – Natasha Lyonne

New Yorkers aren’t stereotypical nappers

She’s talked a lot about napping

#7 – Novak Djokovic

He targets 8.5 nightly hours of sleep

#8 – Jacoby Brissett

He’s an NFL quarterback

He likes to nap and unwind after a tough game

#9 is ?

#10 – Mikaela Shiffrin

You see a trend of napping before big events

She wakes up and immediately can’t wait for her daily nap

Even napping in the snow!

So yeah, that’s it

Check out Matt’s writing

Funny story

I was at a theme park with family

I went to a hotel to take a nap

And I had a text from Matt

He’d seen me at the theme park

Small world

Two ships passing in the night

I’ll check on Koa to make sure she’s taking a nap

 

SUMMARY:

Episode: 1439

Title: Nap Divine | Crossover

Plugs: Sleep With Me Plus; Nap Divine Newsletter; Bub & Pop; SleepPhones; Story Only Feed; Emily Tat Artwork; Crisis Textline

Sponsors: Helix Sleep; Zocdoc; Coyuchi; Blue Land

Notable Language:

• Pacific Sleeping
• Sleeping Pacific
• Doing a lot of Ums
• Ur Best Borefriend 4 Eva
• Third Person Jokes
• Circadian Rhythm
• Sir Cadian
• Nap Wheel
• Deep Steeping Stage
• Napaccino
• Well-Timed Snooze
• Munich Chronotype Questionnaire
• Koa O’Clock
• Blessed Oblivion of a Nap

 

Notable Culture:

• Dawon’s Creek 

• Beverly Hills 90210

• The Hills

• Sleeping Pacific, a new soap opera

• to nap, divine

• • Matt Hoffman

• Scriptnotes podcast

• • National Napping Day
  • Mental Floss – “The Best Way To Nap”
  • UC Irvine, Dr. Sara Mednick
  • Daniel Pink, danpink.com 
  • “Espresso” – Sabrina Carpenter

• A Well-Timed Snooze – Sir Cadian

• • North Woods Baseball
  • BBC Shipping Forecast

• Dough Boys podcast

• • saramednick.com
  • Thomas Edison

• Family Ties

• The Addams Family

• Gilligna’s Island

• Alf

• Cabot Cover Mysteries / Murder She Wrote

• Bob Ross Channel

• Who’s the Boss?

• Winston Churchill

• • Salvador Dalí

• 50 Secrets of Magic Craftsmanship – Salvador Dalí

• • Jimmy Buffett / Margaritaville
  • Justin McElroy / My Brother, My Brother, and Me
  • Lin-Manuel Miranda

• Hamilton

• In The Heights

• Birdman / Michael Keaton

• Encanto

• Saturday Night Live

• Novak Djokovic
• NFL
• Mikaela Shiffrin

 

Notable Talking Points:

• Thoughts that are thinking without you
• Feelings that are making an appearance left over from the day
• You wouldn’t be listening unless we had something in common about sleep
• Something specific and pacific about not getting enough sleep
• Pacific Sleeping and Sleeping Pacifici, scents from Sleep With Me
• The perfumes and colognes within my mind
• Someone else is rooting for you right now
• We’re here so you can flourish
• If you’re skeptical, that’s a normal place to be
• We can just hang here
• A podcast you barely listen to
• So much of our lives is about being a better listener
• Being distracted from the moment
• No active listening at bedtime
• Doing a lot of Ums
• Good thing there’s not a drinking game every time I say, “Uh”
• I’m just here to keep you company
• Ur Best Borefriend 4 Eva
• The job of the borebae
• Thanks for listening, and I hope I can help you
• Explaining the show structure
• A new intro every time
• Third Person Jokes
• Familiar, but different
• Consistency–not repetition–works for me
• A crossover with a writer who writes about napping
• I’m really glad you’re here
• Please consider supporting the show
• A crossover with Matt Hoffman’s to nap, divine
• We’ve had a lot of great convos about napping and music and creativity
• Mental Floss – “The Best Way To Nap”
• Napping is a little like cilantro or pineapple on pizza
• Some people feel groggy after napping
• Redefining Your Relationship to Napping
• The different type of naps
• Creating the perfect sleep soundtrack
• The key to timing naps
• The natural dip of your circadian rhythm
• Matt, can you give me some playlists involving the phrase “circadian rhythm”?
• Sir Cadian
• The natural dip of your internal clock
• Sir Cadian (Super Chill Scoots) will take over
• The best time to nap is related to your waking nap
• Let’s not make this about us, let’s get back to this podcast
• Three Chronotypes
• Larks (morning people)
• Owls (night people)
• Third Birds (everybody else)
• Researchers assess what type of bird you are
• Can I take this assessment right now?
• Dr. Mednick’s Nap Wheel
• Super Chill Scoots (SCS)
• Sir Cadian, SCS
• Early bird nap time – 1-3pm
• Power nap vs sleep cycle nap
• Nap duration is important
• Power nap – 10-30 minutes
• Increased alertness without entering Deep Sleep
• Don’t let your tea enter Deep Steeping Stage
• Deep Sleeping leads to sleep inertia and grogginess
• A 90 minute nap is a full sleep cycle and minimizes sleep inertia
• Be careful when you play with your circadian rhythm
• Coffee and naps can be a great combination
• Napaccino
• Takes advantage of the time it takes for caffeine to kick in
• A cup of coffee right before your nap
• Sip an espresso while you listen to Sabrina Carpenter, then nap for about 20 minutes
• Napping can be for everyone
• Unlocking the rejuvenating potential of a well-timed snooze
• Sir Cadian doesn’t want to be a 90s one hit wonder
• The perfect napping soundtrack
• Some prefer silence, others prefer background noise
• Matt makes “clamorous” seem glamorous
• You put the glam in clam
• You gotta listen to North Woods Baseball
• BBC Shipping Forecast
• Let’s check some links that Matt links to
• Let’s do the chronotype article
• Munich Chronotype Questionnaire
• Let’s look at some questions
• Right now, Koa doesn’t sleep well, so my answers might not be accurate
• I get up when Koa gets up
• If I could, I’d like to get up around 7:30. But I haven’t been getting solid sleep, so I’ve been getting up later
• Super Chill Scoots has been listening to Dough Boys
• How long do you need to wake up?
• When I lived in CA, I’d get up around 8
• I’m trying to get a better relationship with light in NY
  I wake up with the alarm (Koa)
• Koa O’Clock
• When I’m awake, I’m fully awake
• I don’t usually have an energy dip
• There’s not a time when my nap would fit in
• But I might have a focus dip
• On nights before work days, I go to bed…after I’ve put Koa to sleep
• Maybe 10:30? That’s when I want to start reading fiction
• In a perfect world, I’d fall asleep at 11
• I’ll nap on days of leisure, but I don’t have a lot of those
• This is just a questionnaire, not a comment on your values system
• I’d ideally nap for 30 minutes, and I’d love to feel great afterwards
• The last nap I took was about 30 minutes
• Free Day time
• On a free day, I’d get up around 9
• If you stayed up late, you’d wake up later, right?
• If I get 8 hours, I’d only need a minute to wake up
• I’m more likely to have an energy dip on the weekend around 2pm
• I have a lot of people in my life who are strict about their bedtimes
• I’ll go to bed earlier to accommodate them
• I’ll nap better if there’s lots of sunlight
• I like to read for about 30 minutes
• I wake more easily when light shines
• I use a sleep mask
• I haven’t been able to darken my room yet
• I’m still unpacking
• How long per day are you exposed to sunlight outside?
• In CA, at least an hour
• In NY, I’m trying to get 30 minutes
• Results
• What time of day type do I belong to?
• I’m Slight Early to Normal (Type 2 to Type 3)
• Or somewhere between a 2 and a 4
• I was a Type 1 as a child
• My teen self was an extremely late type
• My father is a 0, my mom is a 4
• My siblings are a blend of different types
• Koa is Chaotic Chaotic in regards to sleep
  Let’s look at the Nap Wheel
• I don’t understand the nap wheel
• The likelihood of REM sleep increases the longer you’re awake
• Align your nap time to when you wake up
• Earlier in the day – more REM sleep
• Later – more Slow Wave sleep
• I guess for me, the perfect time would be 2:30pm
• We took a break, and now Sir Cadian is back for another article
• Were we supposed to cover something else? No
• “10 Modern and Famous Nappers” – Mental Floss
• We can do this as a countdown
• #1 – Thomas Alva Edison
• Monogramming for Thomas Alva Edison
• Koa and I’ve been watching some Family Ties
• Koa and I have been watching a lot of old shows
• Koa probably liked Alf the least
• Top tier – Addams Family
• Bottom is Alf
• Edison preferred periodic naps to regular sleep for productivity’s sake
• He had cots everywhere around his home
• Edison invented 1,093 things
• #2 – Winston Churchill
• He loved the blessed oblivion of a nap
• #3 – Salvador Dalí
• Pioneer of surrealist art and napping
• He had a nap technique that involved holding a metal key
• Did Dalí ever guest star on The Addams Family?
• Famous Parrotheads
• Jimmy Buffett
• Buffett loved napping
• #4 – Axl Rose
• Axl’s wearing a crop top in this stock photo
• Man, he’s got a little washboard going on there
• I used to always nap on days of live shows
• I can see why performers would be big into naps
• Axl was napping in the arena, so his opener couldn’t soundcheck
• #5 – Lin-Manuel Miranda
• I think I recommended LMM to Matt
• I saw a photo of LMM napping backstage at a broadway show
• #6 – Natasha Lyonne
• New Yorkers aren’t stereotypical nappers
• She’s talked a lot about napping
• #7 – Novak Djokovic
• He targets 8.5 nightly hours of sleep
• #8 – Jacoby Brissett
• He’s an NFL quarterback
• He likes to nap and unwind after a tough game
• #9 is ?
• #10 – Mikaela Shiffrin
• You see a trend of napping before big events
• She wakes up and immediately can’t wait for her daily nap
• Even napping in the snow!
• So yeah, that’s it
• Check out Matt’s writing
• Funny story
• I was at a theme park with family
• I went to a hotel to take a nap
• And I had a text from Matt
• He’d seen me at the theme park
• Small world
• Two ships passing in the night
• I’ll check on Koa to make sure she’s taking a nap