Episode 1445 – Banana Butter | A Succession of Restful Developments Ep 5
SCOOTER: Friends beyond the binary, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it’s time for A Succession of Restful Developments. Will it be a successful succession? It’ll be a meandering succession. I don't know if that’s actually…things in a row, right, or proceeding…huh, I don't…I’m not gonna look up the definition. There will be meander…pointless meanders and superfluous tangents, one after another, and on and on and on. If you're new, welcome to Sleep With Me. It’s a podcast that’s here to keep you company and take your mind off of stuff so you could fall asleep versus putting you to sleep directly. Sleep With Me is here to be your friend in the deep, dark night and bring you sleepy joy and delight, and that’s hopeful…that’s what we strive to do. Don't know if we actually achieve quite…striving for something…you say, define greatness in terms of lulling and boringly meandering people to sleep, keeping them…well, success would be bring…I mean, the ultimate success would be bringing sleepy joy and delight to everybody, and in a way that helps them get the rest they need so that they can get…they can be out there in the world flourishing, living their lives.
So…oh, by the way, I went off on a meander already. This was supposed to be just the very beginning of the podcast. So, welcome to Sleep With Me. Whether you're new or you're coming back after a long absence, what we got coming up is support so that paying for the podcast is optional, and then a long, meandering intro meant to ease you into bedtime, and then we’ll be talking about our somewhat of a TV-recap style podcast through the lens of dreaming. We call it A Succession of Restful Developments. All told, we’ll be here about a hour. I’m really glad you're here. Thank you so much for stopping by. If you're new, you only listen occasionally, you're going through a tough time, you're not in a position, you choose not to, don't worry. But if this podcast changes your life for the better on a regular basis, if you could consider supporting the show back via either one of these sponsors or directly, this is how we're able to be here for you making your life better and everybody else. Thanks.
Intro: Hey, are you up all night tossing, turning, mind racing? Trouble getting to sleep? Trouble staying asleep? Well, welcome. This is Sleep With Me, the podcast that puts you to sleep. We do it with a bedtime story. Alls you need to do is get in bed, turn out the lights, and press Play. I’m gonna do the rest. What I’m going to attempt to do is create a safe place where you could set aside whatever’s keeping you awake. It could be thoughts, things on your mind, thoughts about the past, the present, the future, thoughts you're thinking about, it could be feelings, anything coming up for you emotionally related to those thoughts or feelings that are just there, it could be physical sensations, it could be changes in time, temperature, routine, you could be going through something, you could be getting over something, you could be in the middle of something. Whatever it is, I’m here to keep you company and take your mind off of it so you could fall asleep.
The only reason I run through some of that stuff or talk about it is so that you get the sense that you're not alone in the deep, dark night, that you don't have to be on your own totally, that there’s other friendly people out there trying to help or rooting for you, and that maybe even some of us understand what brought you here, where you're coming from, or what it feels like for you in the deep, dark night, or we could relate to it. That’s what I’ve found is one of the hardest parts of this whole sleep thing for me, is when I’m in a room with another person or in a house full of people or whatever it is and I can't sleep. It just feels…I don't…it’s isolating, I guess, or it makes me feel like I am on my own and that nobody kinda gets it. So, this place is not like that. Here we get it or we want to get it. Our goal is to make you feel welcome and seen. But you may be thinking…especially if you're new, you might be like, I don't know what you're talking about, or you might be skeptical or doubtful or like, why are you even talking about not being able to sleep on a sleep podcast?
I’m just here for escape or to forget about all that stuff. I get that. But this show is about…or the foundation, I guess what’s underlying the rest of the show and the reason the show exists is because we're all coming here together in a indirect way, across 1’s and 0’s, I guess in a sense. But beneath that there is a very real indirect connection between everybody listening right now. ‘Cause we’ve all been in a place we’d prefer not to be in, and there’s enough people listening right now that someone somewhere in the world can relate to where…whatever it is that brought you here. They've been through something very similar. But they're like a regular listener. So, they're thinking of you and they're smiling. They're doing their wind-down routine or they're getting cozy in bed, and they're rooting for you in the deep, dark night 'cause they've been there, too. They're hopeful you could get the rest you need and you deserve.
That’s why I make the show, because you deserve a bedtime where you don't have to dread it, where it doesn't feel like it’s full of hassle and rigmarole, a bedtime that you could look forward to or at least feel neutral about. Even if you feel neutral about bedtime, you're like, well, it’s not as bad as it was before…that’s the kind of thing that gives me purpose, making bedtime not as bad as before. Now, sure I strive to bring sleepy joy and delight in the deep, dark night, but making it just a little bit better or a little bit less worse means something to me, 'cause I know what it’s like. If it’s different for you, there’s somebody out there that gets that, too, that’s listening. They're saying, oh, I hope this show can help you like it helped me. I didn't realize there was something out there like this. This is the beginning of the show. So, this is the kinda time we gather as a indirect community, and it is rebellious to be there in your room winding down and to send goodness and kindness, well wishes, to root for other people that are struggling.
You could do it for the people that are struggling in the same way you struggle with sleep or during the day, or you could send it out to everybody, everybody listening or everybody within ten miles, or everybody in the world, and that’s really the magic beneath this show. It comes out of a place of like, well, I’d prefer to just go to sleep. So, I don't know, that’s why…what I mean when I say I’m glad you're here. But this show is very different. So, the other heads-up I like to give people is that when most people get here, you might be skeptical, you might be doubtful, you might be frustrated, you're probably like, what is this person going on…? I thought this was a sleep podcast. Where’s the kinda soothing music or modulated tones? This kinda feels a little bit more like nonsense. I say, yeah, it is. It does take some getting used to. Over the past thirteen years I’ve been making the show, I get e-mails all the time over that thirteen years that said, yeah, at first…two tries I didn't like your show at all, didn't like you at all.
The second try I was kind of annoyed or skeptical or didn't understand what was happening, then on the third try I realized, oh, this show is always going nowhere. He is always never getting started. He is serious about nonsense. Then I fell asleep and you were…I don't even know what you were talking about. So, just give it a few tries and see how it goes. You really have nothing to lose. For some people it works on the first try. They're like, oh wow, I’ve been hoping there was something out there like this, like a friend I could hang out with in the deep, dark night. But give it a few tries. See how it goes. If it doesn't work out or you already know that it’s a no, we have a website set up with other sleep podcasts and sleepy stuff on there, like other sleep podcasts that are not like Sleep With Me. It’s sleepwithmepodcast.com/nothankyou. So, you could find something else that might help you out. So, try that out, sleepwithmepodcast.com/nothankyou.
Especially if it’s definitely not a fit, yeah, just go over there, and hopefully everything I said up and to this point is true, and hopefully…so that helps…you find something that works for you. So, that’s one thing. This is also a podcast that you don't exactly listen to. You kind of listen. You just barely listen. It’s kinda like a TV on in the other room or a show streaming under your pillow, something…a friend that you're not really listening to or you're kinda barely listening to them. Hey, tell me about…don't you watch a lot of shows? Can you tell me about…can you compare two shows that probably could be…they have some things in common but they're not really similar? Oh yeah. I mean, so many years I’ve thought about the similarities between the banana stand and Royco. I mean, there’s too many similarities to count that are dissimilar. Oh yeah, could you tell me more about that? Oh, I can. Oh, and I will.
We’ve all had a friend like that or been at a seminar or a conference or some…a classroom where we just couldn't quite pay attention. This is like that, but you have full permission not to pay attention to me, but you could pay attention. I’ll be here being somewhat engaging the whole time. ‘Cause the way it works is I send my voice across the deep, dark night. I use lulling, soothing, creaky, dulcet tones, pointless meanders, and superfluous tangents. So, my voice is not traditionally soothing and I kinda go off topic, I get mixed up, I forget what I was talking about. I think I had a pointless meander at the beginning of the show. A lot of these are a little bit more full-hearted 'cause I’m in a full-hearted mood 'cause I love making this podcast so much. But I just realized that I’m wearing some velour today, and then I didn't realize that velour and Velcro…I mean, yeah, I just never made the connection that they both start with ‘vel’. Velour; Velcro.
Velour is like the kind of clothing…I think it was popular in the seventies, maybe, maybe the…I don't know, fifties, sixties, seventies. It’s a little bit softer. Not quite fuzzy, but fuzzy-like. Then Velcro has a fuzzy side and a loop side, right? Or a looped side and…oh, the fuzzy side is actually the little hooks, right? That’s how it works. I mean, so, is that some sort of…? What’s that thing called at the beginning of a word? Is that some sort of…is that Greek for ‘touch’? I don't know. So, vel…is anyone…? I mean, is…? Anyway, it’s going nowhere, this…always going nowhere. This particular meanders…it’s just a thought that popped in my head. Velour; Velcro. I don't know, was there ever…? That could be a name for twins. I mean, not a great name since one is, I think, probably a copyrighted or a trademarked corporate term, and…or maybe they both are. But maybe their family is in the clothing business or something. I don't know. So, yeah, that’s a mini pointless meander and superfluous tangent.
‘Cause, yeah, this is a podcast you just barely listen to, like a out-of-focus picture or sand passing through your hands. This is also a sleep podcast that’s not here to put you to sleep. There is no pressure to fall asleep with this show. That’s the reason the episodes are over an hour, so you don't ever have to think about going to sleep. There’s over 600+ episodes available to everybody, so you could make playlists or pick the episodes that you like that work for you. Because, yeah, there is no pressure to fall asleep. There’s people listening who can't sleep at all or who need a break during the day, who are waking up in the middle of the night trying to get back to sleep, or who have a job where they need something to listen to in the background. So, I’m here to the very end for them and for you, whether you're awake or asleep, whether you're listening to me or not.
I’ll be here to the end of the show to keep you company, because my job is to be your bore-friend, your bore-bae, your bore-sib, your neighbore, your borebie, your boreman, your Boris Borelaf, your chairman of the boreds, your best bore-friend f’eva, to hang out with you. That’s what a bore-friend does, keep you company, tell you a story so you could fall asleep. So, that’s what I’ll do. I’ll be here. The other thing I like to run through at the beginning of the show, especially for new listeners 'cause it can really throw new listeners off, is the structure of the show and why we structure the show the way we do. If you find that this particular version of the show…you have a preference of it being a little bit different, what your options are. So, this version of the podcast, this ad-supported, listener-supported version of the show, is the one that benefits the maximum amount of people over the years that we’ve found it can, 'cause most people just listen to this episode linearly, and I’ll explain to you kinda how they listen.
So, the show starts off with a greeting; friends beyond the binary, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, so you feel seen and welcomed in. You say, oh, okay, I could check that show out. That feels nice enough. Then there’s support, like asking for listener support or sponsors so that paying for the show is optional. It’s the only way the team and I can make the show and keep putting it out. But that support is really for only the people that listen night after night whose lives are changed by the podcast. When they support the show and the sponsors, it exists for everybody else; new people, people that listen occasionally, people that are going through a tough time right now but they won't need the show in six months, or people that aren't in a position to support the show or just don't support things. All of them…and if that’s you, you get to benefit. It’s cool, huh? Yeah, those people who support the show are rebels, and everybody benefits. But it is necessary.
If you prefer something without ads, you could get that at Sleep With Me+. But after that is the intro, which we're doing right now, and the intro is totally separate from the support. It’s a show within a show. It goes on for fifteen to twenty minutes where I explain what the podcast is, I follow a familiar structure every time, but every intro is new so it gives a level of reassurance and familiarity, but it also has variety. So, whatever it is that’s keeping you awake, if you have the style like I do where it constantly points out repetition…at least this way it’s like, oh, okay, he’s gonna talk about something different this intro, but he’s still gonna go through the main things, and then every episode is gonna be different. But the reason the intro’s fifteen to twenty minutes, other than my inefficiency at explaining what the podcast is, is the fact that the intro is not meant to put you to sleep.
While there is a small percentage of people that fall asleep fast…and I always point out, if you fall asleep fast and you just happen to be hearing this now, please consider supporting the show, 'cause that’s one of the toughest audience groups to capture, right? But yeah, most people are winding down during the intro. They're getting ready for bed, they're in bed getting comfortable, they're petting their pets, they're doodling, crocheting, knitting, hooking, looking out the window, doing something else relaxing as they ease into bedtime. One of those things for me is foam-rolling, doing a couple quick stretches, some breathing. Whatever it is for you, you get to discover that, and ideally Sleep With Me is just a part of that to get eased into bedtime, to have a buffer between being awake and asleep. So, that’s why the intro goes on and on and on. If you start listening to the show and you decide, I don't like the intros, you could get…the story-only versions come out in a podcast twice a week called Bedtime Stories from Sleep With Me in every podcast app.
Or if you support the show, you get the story-only versions the same day the intro…the full versions come out. But believe it or not, there’s people who support the show to get all-intro versions twice a month. So, it’s different for everybody. But for most people, if you don't have a niche taste in Sleep With Me, that’s okay. This version will always be here, ideally. But that’s why the intro goes on and on and on. Then after the intro will be support, then it will be our episode about A Succession of Restful Developments, and all told we’ll be here about a hour. I am really glad you're here and I really hope this show can help you out. I appreciate you coming by. Again, if this podcast night after night makes your life better, you wouldn't want this podcast to go away, it’s valuable to you, you're the listeners we could really use support from. You could check out one of these sponsors or support the show directly, or you could think about it. Thanks.
Alright everybody, this is our…a very different style of…a TV-recap-esque episode. So, this is similar to Dreaming of Newhart. This is A Restful Development, A Succession of Restful Developments, which we always have a succession of meandering titles to everything, too, but playful and meandering to bring you joy and delight in the deep, dark night. So, what you're gonna be hearing…maybe it’s parody, maybe it’s satire, or maybe it’s a dream itself of someone named Michael B. who repeatedly dreams of…well, he doesn't realize it, but his dreams are incredibly similar to episodes of Succession. Yeah, we get to listen in to him and his…the team he works with looking at his days and his nights.
Oh hey, Michael. Thanks for coming in again, and thanks to you and your family for keeping such great…I’m really hoping that at some point things really do improve for you with all the work you're putting in, at least in providing these details. Oh, thanks, thanks. Yeah. Yeah, I’m hoping things change, too, for me. So, why don't you run through your week in your own words, and the best you can summarize it, and then we’ll look at what comes up? I hope you don't mind me saying, though, that…I’m sorry we missed…I missed you last week. Seemed like you took a week off or something. But your weeks always seem dreamy to me. Okay, well, yeah. So, well…okay, where do I start? You know the golden arches and…that on and off…particularly when I was a kid, the golden arches had playlands and a lot of lore and TV-show commercials with old Ronald…good old Ronald, our friend, and his friend Grimace, and then the person who borrows hamburgers and the fry friends. There’s also a pilot.
I can't remember her name; Birdy McGee or something. But anyway, so, my brother Gob, he was…we're siblings, close in age. Gob came to the banana stand and he was like, hey, I want to basically create a character for the…to promote the banana stand based on the person who takes burgers without permission. Not the person from the…I think it was in the comic books and then…or was it…? Then there was a movie where they said, I’ll gladly pay you for a hamburger…I’ll gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today. So, he said, yeah. Oh, but this person would also hold bananas too tightly, his character, and when you hold…that’s…how come we’ve never done that? Could you start something? You only work in dreams, but…I wonder if I carried around a banana gently all day long if that would help me not grab it and stay calm. Probably not. Probably just end up with the bananas, and also because Gob wants his double…his fancy bananas.
But then he also wants…he goes back…oh…goes back and forth on the bananas, and he’s trying to negotiate with me. Even though the idea is not particularly useful, he wants a right to unlimited, free bananas, double-dipped with two sticks and everything. So, we go back and forth, and then he’s…wants rights to the show. Never said, though, about the idea of charging people to carry around bananas for…banana calm. Do you think we could…? Do you think that we could…? Well, Michael, I’m just in dreams here. Banana calm; the Banana Calm Method? BCM. I might have something there. Oh, also my father…so, what do we got here? So, there was these permits that were supposed to be filed; you're right. I thought they were, but of course they were supposed to be by my father, and then Gob…my father says, well, Gob can get into the…he can file the permits if they're…through his magical skills. So, those are two things.
But then also me having this boundary, which I guess it’s not a dream; it’s symbolic of this…all this stuff with my other siblings and my mother is…hey, this isn't a free banana stand. Or, you can't have all…just trying to get them to be more conscientious, whatever that term is. But everybody turns to me and they say, how could you do that to your brother, kinda thing? They also kind of use that as like, yeah, so, you just want to be in control. I say, no, it’s…I’m the responsible one. Which I don't think…my dreams don't matter about this. I am the responsible one, and yes, it’s symbolic, Gob’s banana demands. But also it’s not symbolic. It’s real. He’s take…it’s just…I don't know…couldn't he have come up with the Banana Adder or Banana…? Not additives of bananas or adding things to bananas, but that could be another…why couldn't he come up with that idea? Like, we're gonna…oh, add a Banana Plus or something. We’ve plussed our bananas. That was…I’m looking for…I feel like I’m on my own.
I guess this is…I’m talking about the wrong things here. I realize this is a dream session. But basically I felt like everybody was saying I’m not generous and I’m in control, and I consider myself very generous. Now, I guess in my awareness…and short-sighted and I can be not very open-minded or open-viewing. So, I did make an assumption that this woman was…or former housekeeper, or my mother’s former housekeeper, I guess. So, I offered to give her a ride, which kinda became a bit of…created a lot of confusion. But also I think, yeah, the interesting part that leaked through my dreams was that my…there’s this auction, and there’s…so, my sister’s putting on this auction. Then my mother and Lucille Austero are in competition. Well, she’s not really in competition with my mother; my mother doesn't want her at the auction, so she gives her tickets to the show and says, Buster, you're gonna bid on your mother for a date. So…which I give up…give the most.
Then I’m also kind of like…me and my sister get into a competition 'cause I’m…she’s like, oh, I’m doing this good thing for the wetlands and cleaning up. I say, yeah, I don't believe that. So, there’s that. But then I tried to help my sister out because…'cause I felt like, whoa…'cause she came back. I guess I created a situation. So, I bid on her to show her I was sorry, I guess. Then because of the confusion of giving…so, the woman I gave a ride to was not Lupe. She was under the mistaken impression 'cause some of Buster’s statuettes were in the back of the car, his homework statuettes, and there was also…what was that? Nail polish on the car. Oh, there’s this whole thing also where everybody’s using my father’s car but me. Meanwhile I don't have a car. ‘Cause, oh, the stair car Tobias parked…he parked it in the wrong spot, created a big thing. So, I have to go down and clear that up.
Then I find my son there at the place where you clear up mistakes, and he…Gob was supposed to file the permits, but then my son was put in the position of filing the permits at a time where permits are not allowed to be filed. So, he was trying to clear up the confusion around that. Meanwhile Gob is whistling all the time. First I thought it was related to my brother’s…my brother kept…I don't know. I said…he was inadvertent whistling? Then my father, actually, is not happy with Gob because of George Michael doing the job Gob was supposed to do. Oh, the whole reason I couldn't use my father’s car was 'cause I spilled ice cream as a kid. I don't think that’s really the reason, but just a memory of mine, that he thought ice cream was so important. Yeah, then kinda the idea recently that I’ve become aware of outside of here or outside of dreams, that gratitude is a action, this has nothing to do with anything except that I’m learning for myself, and I guess I am also monitoring my siblings.
Someone told me gratitude…if gratitude is an action, then the action is taking care of what you're grateful for. I noticed that my siblings did not have gratitude because they…there’s the nail polish, Gob left a magic trick that stained one of the seats, my brother’s got this car full of statuettes. So, then I was like, I’m gonna spill some ice cream in this car, or I’m gonna have ice cream in this car. Okay, Michael. Well, that’s quite the dream there. Oh, that was your…sorry, that was your week. Oh boy, quite a week, Michael. Well, we also have all your dreams here, and a lot to think about in your dream. But one thing got my attention the most, and I have to apologize 'cause I really worked with my assistant…'cause I said, I don't know if this is working. But one of the things was the frozen butter. Do you want to tell me about the frozen butter in your dream or frozen butter?
Okay, I don't know if…it was butter that was too hard, and this was…in the dream it brought me an awareness of this as an experience. I guess maybe it is about my siblings, or maybe it’s…oh boy, it’s all about me, huh? You don't have to say anything. I can tell by your look. But the idea that people would have…I’ve had this experience before, right, where my butter has been too hard, particularly at a wedding because it’s shaped like some sort of flower, normally, or maybe a Mother’s Day buffet? But I can't think of a Mother’s Day buffet that I was allowed to go to, you know. But anyway, I have to believe that even in my family, at least for me — and I would think my son would be able to do this, too — you make the most of the situation. Now, I think it would be interesting to see how Tobias, for example, or cousin Greg in the dream would deal with frozen or too-hard butter. But the idea is…so…okay, so I just want to talk about what I learned from the dream before you get into it.
But I guess what I learned is more factual, that I’ve always made the most…now, I’m not saying this makes me an optimist, but my strategy when I’ve done this in the past is, yeah, you still try to put it on and then it usually rips your bread. Now, hopefully…if you're at a wedding or some sort of situation where you have this kind of butter, you don't want to wait for the butter to get soft, 'cause by that time you'll be on…you'll have finished your salad if there’s a soup and you'll be on your main, or your main…so, you do want to eat the bread. So, what I usually do, though…and this is…I don't know if you use this. Or, I know your assistant’s electronically intelligent. But what I do is I take the butter and then I try…I still try, 'cause you never…you can't really tell until you try or you see somebody else try. Even if you see somebody else try, it doesn't matter. But you basically…hopefully the bread has a quality crust. Then all you do is…maybe you try to put it on first and your bread’s already shredded.
But then you squeeze the butter between the crust. So, your two…your index and your middle finger…you're forming a C with your left hand or your right hand. You're placing the butter within the C or a half-circle or like Pac-Man or whatever. You're not doing any Pac-Man motions, though. Then ideally you're centering the butter in the middle of the bread, then you're compressing the…what is that called? Not rind. Crust. So, your thumb is pressing down on the bottom crust and then your top two fingers…and then what you do is you massage it. You massage the butter between the crust. Now, is this a regular piece of bread with butter spread on it? No, but I’ll tell you what; it’s pretty darn good, 'cause you still will have the bread. Yes, it’s smushed and compressed, but if it’s a good, chewy crust…it’s almost like a treat on its own. Maybe other people have methods for dealing with that.
But what I realize is in my dream…this is the only reason I related to my mother and my siblings, is that when you're at a certain level of expectation, this created for…well, it was multiple layers for this Connor in my dreams, the oldest brother. He does feel a sense of responsibility in this dream to everything being perfect, though his expectation…well, I guess it’s on others. It’s everyone else’s responsibility; the kitchen staff, the event planner, that everything goes perfectly. For Connor it does have to go perfectly. It is funny; in another part of the dream he’s talking to the dancers before they go on stage, comparing his experience to the butter to their experience, or whatever he’s inferring, and that they've both had their share of hardships and they're equal, 'cause he had a thing with the butter earlier. But yeah, for someone to see that, it’s not really a hardship. It’s like, huh, I mean, I’d prefer this butter be soft, but…I don't know, is it…?
I mean, maybe I’ve just never been a host, or maybe I’m just too focused on the people. It’s just like, it’s butter. Get over it. But I guess when you reach a certain level, you expect to be catered to by caterers, but in a perfect way. Because the other thing about the dream was that…oh, I guess I didn't explain the dream part, just the butter part. So, in the dream, Connor Roy, who is the oldest sibling in my recurring dreams about this Roy family, he’s a bit of a…he doesn't have the same mom as the other siblings. He’s a little bit more…he’s not interested in running the business, so he’s kind of a man of leisure. But anyway, he’s…but he is in charge of this catering…or he’s not the event planner. He’s kinda like the event…I don't know. He’s like, oh, I don't do any work. I just point out the imperfections, like the butter, which again in my dreams I realize now this…and maybe it was…this is totally separate from the butter, but Marcia and Marsha, is a little bit like my ignorance.
So, I finally see that part now with my assumptions I make about other people, and that is an intentional, unintentional thing about my dreams, that the siblings or some people insist on calling her Marsha sometimes and not Marcia, and that I’m almost misremembering it within my dreams. That kinda got handed to me on a silver butter platter this week through the dream. But so, the butter is too hard. It came right out of the…it wasn’t allowed to reach room temperature or some…it was frozen butter. Not frozen anymore, but still hard. I think this is a pretty archetypal experience. So, Connor says…he’s like, this is unacceptable. Maybe he is an extreme version of my behavior with the bananas, because he does kinda say no more serving of butter or planning of events for anybody involved in this, and basically assumes that all is lost as far as the whole event goes. Does that make sense?
Yeah, and I did have some back-and-forth with my assistant, 'cause I did feel like, wow, what a powerful…what a powerful way to look at it, Michael. I almost don't want to have my…look through my assistant’s notes, but I will. What great insight about Marsha and Marcia from you. So, I did ask my assistant…I said, come on, we're not here to instruct Michael. We're here to…we're not even here to show…I’m not here to map your dreams for you anymore, Michael, anymore, but to just help you see what you might be seeing. Huh, okay. Why don't you try? Okay, so, the first thing my assistant said is what if this is related to social anthropology of hospitality? Hospitality? Hospitality. Sorry, Michael, I misspoke. You know that shared food functions kinda signal that, hey, we're at the watering hole; all is well, and that there’s a sense of belonging and competence. The small details, like the temperature of the butter, are micro-rituals of care.
Maybe the same thing seeing your brother not going along with that with the two sticks…the double-stick banana thing. When it doesn't work out, people react disproportionally because…instead of the practicality of the butter, it’s become a symbolic thing, kinda like you. Is the practicality of the bananas…? I’m not…I guess I am interpreting, but is that a practical thing or a symbolic thing? Then there’s a psychodynamic micro-failure model that things…when you feel like you gotta perform, that small errors equal big judgment, and they're evidence that you're not capable and that also, even though it’s something small, it attracts disproportionate attention. Maybe this whole idea that just one…though in the dream Connor doesn't…he reacts that way. Maybe we're seeing something deeper that he doesn't see of his…wondering, hey, where do I fit in? There’s [inaudible] and reputation economies.
When environments are status-driven, these details are proxies for capability and trustworthiness. This is a system where optics matter more than substance. So, maybe there’s some sort of Freudian domestic symbolism. Food preparation can relate to domestic intimacy, emotional nourishment, and maybe that means the hardness of the butter is related to comfort that is unavailable or resistant. Warmth cannot be accessed when expected, like someone wasn't paying attention to the details or didn't care. Maybe Connor’s feelings are a good thing. Even in the dream it seems ridiculous, this is a comfort butter on bread. Even though you're saying you can adjust to frozen things, is some part of you saying you don't need to? Okay, what about Venus being out of season? Butter and shared meals are associated with Venice…Venus themes; pleasure, ease, hospitality, social harmony. But frozen or rigid means social warmth could be constrained or delayed.
Social ease disrupted, social friction…it’s supposed to be smooth and effortless putting on butter. Like butter, you know? What if there’s some sort of friction awareness? Hard butter’s unexpected friction makes…everybody notices. What does it mean to you when friction is visible? Then I said, I don't know if these are as out there. So, I said to my assistant, try harder. Okay, now what if we go into some sort of…? I’m not familiar with this either, Michael; object agency theory, animist material cultural…culture lens. So, what if these objects in dreams are actors rather than props? So, the butter is not passive; it’s actively withholding cooperation. This object was supposed to be effortless and soft and helpful, maybe a caring or a comfort item, but it’s decided itself of its own buttery will to…now, all those other people, they were like, the butter was soft. It must have gone hard on its own, in the dream, at least, because everybody else was trying to manage it.
Then Connor’s reaction is like this reaction of uncooperative butter. I thought you were gonna do something. I thought you were gonna be easy and soft and pliant, even. Would you consider butter pliant, Michael? I would never use that term for butter, but I think that is a accurate use of that term. Okay, so what if the systems you rely on are harder to maintain, huh? There’s also thermodynamic symbolism. This is back into this energy and entropy idea. Okay, so, this is maybe about energy flow. Think about it like energy flow. Now, warmth is movement and exchange, right? Expansion. Cold can be shrinkage, frozenness, stalled, not moving. The more frozen it is…also the idea that butter is both a solid and a liquid and it’s ideally-controlled softness. It’s holding its form, especially in those flowers, until you as the user reform it into its comfort state. So, all of a sudden this energy that was supposed to be flowing in a almost perfect way, especially related to…even satiety, right?
At fundraiser, which…about…I mean, in a sense about raising money for a good cause, being generous. All of a sudden the energy is not circulating. When the energy flow stops, everybody’s gonna notice, and what does that mean? Then finally my assistant likes to look at these simulation stagecraft theories. So, bank…this is a planned event. So, it’s a constructed environment. It’s a setting. Success, stability…so, continuity errors could be revealing to you that it was a dream, that it was artificial, or that…what if on…what if we're talking about…what if there was some sort of continuity glitch, a detail that should be corrected that is not? Then you're noticing it in the dream. Spare no expense, Connor, you probably said at some point. So, how could this butter possibly be hard? This is the first thing served other than drinks. Something is off. Are we…are you in a simulation or not? The carefully-staged environment has revealed some sort of imperfection.
Is it organic, natural imperfection or is it to say, hey, something’s happening here? So, what do you think of all that, Michael? Okay, yeah. I have a question; anything from my dream stuck out to you that I didn't…? You say, hey, let’s focus on this, my messages? Oh, thanks for that question. There were a couple things that I started to wonder about with Connor. Well, there’s…so, yeah, you didn't talk about Shiv’s client or Shiv very much in that whole thing. You did talk about Roman, but of this intimacy and doing things a little differently but being exposed or whatever. Then Connor’s…I say, Connor wants…does Connor actually…? Connor’s idea that he could be a responsible in the executive branch…he doesn't seem ambitious to me. So, it’s just…that just stuck…I say, you want to be in charge of things, but not your father’s company? A lot of times I think about when Will is in the dream and belonging, then kinda the father stuff.
It is with your father, too, of like Logan being present physically versus his presence is kind of a myth or a legend or an influence from offstage, his gravity. Then everything…the constant checking in, the constant…your dream is very rapid-paced, but so many people…hey, what should we do here? Call this person. Oh, I gotta take a call. Oh, there’s news coming in, all this…these distractions that aren't…all feel essential or something. I think that’s it. But yeah, let’s go to…you wanted to talk about PT and exercise and Logan, and I think Marsha and Marcia we already saw. Okay, let’s talk about some of the theories. What about social reentry? Maybe this ties to some of this romance stuff from the previous weeks we’ve met, even though you missed last week’s appointment. So, I don't know what happened to you last week, but…he’s reentering into a social role. That’s kind of the theme of the dream, maybe, even, or maybe it was a antisocial role, if you don't mind me saying, and the tension with that.
Here’s a question I was wondering, and it doesn't have to be answered 'cause I don't know if there is an answer. But when you think about your father and what’s happening with him and then you think about Logan and…what does Logan really want before the later parts of the dream? Is any of his hesitance or frustration from a place of like, wouldn't it be nice if my kids took over and I could relax? Or, not that that’s possible for the dream Logan you have. But do you have any experience with that? It’s like, hey, it’s not even possible for me to count on Gob. I’m not linking the two. I guess I’m trying to be outside…further outside the box of like, in the dream, was there any part of Logan, even one percent, that was like, huh, maybe I don't want to do any of this stuff?
‘Cause, yes, he’s gonna return to kind of meet expectations, whether they're internal or external, about who he is and how he should handle things even though there was this disruption, and that even though things are never…it doesn't feel like there’s a status quo; there is, or there’s never a steadiness…maybe there’s this sociological power theory, where temporarily the power structure and the authority structure was inverted, and for a brief time Logan has…kinda has a dependency, and maybe that’s a resistance to being dependent instead of what I was saying earlier. Again, I try to be open to everything. Marcia’s trying to say, hey, if you want…if what you want is on the other side of this, then you have to do this, and you kinda have to be malleable and listen and follow through on this and have slow progress, or incremental change. So, is there any sort of gradual, unavoidable transitions happening for you?
Freudian-wise, maybe…my assistant said, it’s so authority and…around your physical presence. What if your physical presence is the domain of limits in reality, even? This is about some sort of control and limitation and the illusion of control, even, because that’s kinda maybe what’s happening with Logan. He has the illusion that he’s always been dominant, and a dominant almost instant force, like a change in the weather. What they seem to be saying is, oh no, the weather actually has to move slowly across the globe here and formulate here and then sit in this zone here and then move here, Logan. They said, no, no, no, this is too frustrating for me. Then she says, well, if you want to be…reestablish yourself as a weather system, you have to slowly…you have to do this, what they're saying. Your desire for control can't overcome reality. Or Logan’s; I’m sorry for saying that. I meant it in a general sense. Could be Saturn-related if we look at it astrologically in discipline, like Saturn as structured effort and time together.
So, Logan’s resistant or opposed or impatient to these natural astrological processes, and Marcia’s saying, no time and patience…this is gonna take some time and patience and slow change. You can't have it your way. So, some sort of slower path, maybe, that you're on. Maybe…like you said, maybe it’s an incredibly slow path, but are you on a path? You are…you said you did do some work. Okay, what about embodied systems, object agency? What if your physical presence has…is an environment with its own agenda and it’s negotiating with you? So, the dream is about your physical presence and negotiating with Michael, and your conscious identity is trying to maintain an old way, but your physical presence is saying something has changed, so we need to do this through a new mode of operation.
But also the dream…I don't know, maybe this is the desire you have for Marcia, to say, hey, I’m gonna mediate between these things, and especially if you relate to any of Logan’s frowny faces, furrowed browing…she’s saying, okay, you could furrow your brow all you want, but if you want…is there…? I think…I know I would have a desire for a mediator like that. Then if we go into the simulation stagecraft, what if it’s a rehearsal place, right? Before returning to the stage or going on stage, you have to rehearse. Or this is a rewrite. We're rehabilitating the play through practice over and over again. It’s not perfect, though, right? That’s why it’s practice. So, this is some sort of public persona being reconstructed and wanting to go straight to the performance without rehearsal and someone saying, no, no, no. If you want to get to the show, you have to do this rehearsal work. So, I don't know, maybe it’s not about realizing we're in a simulation so much as saying, huh, it’s…am I still in rehearsal?
What am I in rehearsal for? Okay, so, the next thing I want to talk about was Bill and Greg and Tom, because it was powerful kinda how Bill is retiring best boss ever, and then he kinda tries to help Tom navigate…he also has a strange glee. I don't know if it’s 'cause it’s retiring, the way you put it in the dream, and that…he goes, oh yeah, we have two viable options, but neither option is actually viable for Tom. You could know nothing. Either way, everything’s fine. Just watch the power plant and keep the power on. But Tom, in this part of the dream, he actually said, wow, this is surprising that Tom can grasp what’s happening. Then he tells…he actually seeks help. He tries to trust his gut, and then Greg ends up telling Jerry in the dream. So, it was no win that ended up actually…I mean, I guess in some sense…then he actually…then Greg isn't honest with him, and then he says, must have been Shiv, then. So, this idea that you're being…again, maybe.
This organizational idea, the double bind that you're in; you're responsible but you don't get the car. You're trying to have boundaries with the bananas but then everybody says you're not generous. You have these competing obligations, but you don't really…sorry to be directly interpreting, but it’s just these ones, you know? Maybe it’s some sort of internal communication theory and the messages aren't going through? So that the communication…you're having, like the song says, communication breakdown, and you're displacing…your trust is being displaced, and there’s not a sense of certainty, right? It could be some sort of projection and misplaced blame. This is psychodynamics, I believe. That’s kinda what’s happening with…it’s misdirected attribution. Is there some sort of sense of complex loyalty or is there layers to relationships that you're being impacted by or not seeing?
With Freudian, maybe there’s some…I guess Tom was getting some sort of knowledge, a bit like the forbidden fruit or something. He does try to act on it. Maybe this idea that the psyche cannot keep stuff like this contained. So, instead of doing it, it migrates and transforms. Maybe this is some sort of circulation thing that’s happening. This could also be related to Mercury, 'cause information flow, keeping secrets, miscommunication. Could be a disruption to Mercury, that the messages change like a game of telephone, and that changes loyalties. But also the sense — maybe this is also in the dream — that information moves faster than trust. It could also be some sort of system theory being tested out within you about honesty or who is loyal to you. Maybe there’s unexpected realignments happening.
Maybe it is something with your sense of…I think you used the term ‘ignorance’ being pointed out to you, but also you trying to be generous with your sister, but then also it not…then afterwards something else not working out. It couldn't have been…that couldn't have been easy. Then maybe there was the idea of the role of the messenger. If this is a simulation, this is maybe a plot device. I don't know. I did want…I know we have to wrap up, but I was thinking about Roman and Grace and the name Grace a lot, and then Roman’s kinda complex relationships definitely represents some inner part of you I think that I would like…I mean, as a team we could get to know together a little bit better, you know, and be more open to this Roman within you. But let’s just stick with the dream part. By the way, you're…yeah, let’s stick with the dream part.
Okay, so, there’s distance and control in the dream, there’s this ambivalence at the beginning with Grace, and…but then he has this heightened attention and somewhat of a strange way of sensing his boundaries or what he wants, like taking pleasure in complications for others, or conflicting drives towards…what does it mean to be independent or attached to something? Maybe some…this teasing or…he wasn't so much trying…was he trying to undermine his rival or was he taking pleasure in the undermining…? Was it both pleasurable and non-pleasurable to him? But was he also signifying his status, right? Because he could do that. Maybe that’s where some of the tension came from, where they're like, oh man, and that even the attention is like a currency between the waiter and Grace, that currency that Roman didn't have. But I think about for you, what does attention and hierarchy and relationships mean? Then there’s observation versus intimacy.
It’s like holding opposed emotional stances. That’s kinda what we were seeing, right? This coldness and this heightened desire when she’s desired…makes some sort of security where it’s mediated through distance or observation. Or the triangle that they had, does that make it…? Because it’s indirect and displaced make it feel better, or is it just offering this idea of a indirect pathway to you being more engaged emotionally? Or is it some sort of Freudian power displacement desire thing? Like competitive energy, socially rather than directly, like the control is substituting for the closeness? I don't know. Is it Mars and Venus intention? The competition, asserting versus connection and attraction. Maybe there’s a misalignment between Mars and Venus and their connection and energy transfer, and that being assertive is easier than being tender? I don't know.
‘Cause in your dreams there is some low-level tenderness with the sweater and the smell of the sweater with Roman, maybe. I don't know. I know that was a couple weeks ago, but maybe it’s more of like a anthro…a triangle…relationships and public-performance thing. Even though no one was observing it, the waiter, in a sense, and Grace were observing Roman as he was observing them. So, it’s performative. It’s related…even though it’s related to performance, it’s also still performative in another sense. Then, yeah, maybe it’s under the stagecraft simulation lens. It’s also like the spot…the curtain going…as soon as you're…that there’s something about the observation…I don't know. I guess…I don't want to dig too deep into it too early with you, Michael. Well, I appreciate that, but…yeah. Well, I think that’s all the time we have. I wish we had more to talk about Kendall and his date and then all that, but I think we're probably doing pretty good here with you, and just keep going forward, and we’ll just both rest this week again and see what you dream of this week and how it relates to everything, okay? Alright, thanks. Okay, goodnight. Goodnight.
[End of recording]
Transcription performed by LeahTranscribes
